Hi

I'm not yet a Stickist, and am a lapsed bassist...!

I'm a professional recording engineer specialising in rock and indie bands, and I have access to very sophisticated recording studios (Protools HD3 and the like) as well as a solid home studio with Protools LE with a very wide range of effects, good PMC monitors plus a desk and preamps etc.

My question is really this:

Does the Stick react to the plug-in effects in the same way that a guitar or bass does, and what pick-up (or combination) would be the most effective in a studio environment?

(I sort of know the answer, and have recorded stick in the past, but I read a lot of posts about live rigs here, not so many about studio and/or recording).

I'm assuming the same stricture for guitars works with the Stick, i.e. that the best sounds are gained by real amps and that mic'ing the cabs is a more successful approach, but I wondered if anyone goes down the virtual route, as an 8x10 is a bit big for the house!

You'll get a brazilian opinions here (how much is that exactly?).

I've never put my Stick through a serious amp setup...besides, I'd need two lots of everything to feed my stereo addiction. I have used Sansamp stuff and speaker emulators...but recently I've been going (more or less) straight into the desk. As little high-end attenuation as possible...there's just some sparkle from my PASV-4 that I need to hear This brings us to the issue of decent high input impedance preamping...for which I use a StepABout.

I think this was covered on one of your other threads but it bears repeating: you'll do best if you try and think of Sticking as 'its own thing' rather than 'guitar meets bass'.

Well it's a stringed instrument with a magnetic pickup. It sounds different because it's tapped however I think most bass and guitar effects work fine on the Stick. They won't sound the SAME because the Stick doesn't sound the same ... but they all work.

I get the sense that traditional guitar recording methods (mics and cabinets, etc.) aren't used as much in the Stick world as they are with bass/guitar. For one thing, the instrument has a natural full frequency sound that lends itself more to minimal processing and recording straight to the board. In that sense it's almost more acoustic in nature. While I like effects a lot I find I use things like amp and cabinet simulation less and less, since they tend to focus the sound in a particular frequency range and I end up feeling it's taking something away from the tone (unless of course I'm using distortion - which is rather nasty without EQ or cabinet simulation- or specifically trying to get a guitar like tone).

You can still go with a bass/guitar amp/cabinet approach and Steve Adelson for example does that kind of thing on his new DVD, and it sounds great.

While I use an Acoustic Image combo for live playing (designed for acoustic instruments) I think when I get serious about working on a CD recording project it would be fun to blend the direct sound with a mic on the speaker to add some extra dimension.

When I record bass, I DI the instrument, DI the amp if available and mic the cabinet, most basses don't sound as good simply DI'd (although my Warwick and basses of that ilk work well in some instances DI'd). I expect that approach will be fine in the studio, but at home I'm unlikely to break out the Ampegs!! Is the DI approach more prevalent in recording Sticks generally?

Do the Stick pickup's record well? I have EMG's on the Warwick, but like the idea of the PASV4, is it a low output unit?

Still trying to get my head around the possibilities, I'd like to get an instrument that is as versatile as possible.

Thanks for the replies gents, sorry if I'm asking obvious questions, as you already know this is a bit of a big step!

Yes, I'd say the DI approach is fairly common for Stick recording.

PASV-4 will give you the most versatility of any Stick pickup, with the different filter and pickup combinations available. It's passive but actually generates more voltage than the other Stick pickups (even the ACTV-2). All my music uses this pickup if you want to get an idea of the tone (see my MySpace page), also check out the "Gentle Giant" thread on the Feedback section for an idea of a straight DI kind of tone (little reverb, dual pickups in phase, 3rd filter setting which reinforces low mids).

Hey Rob,

How do I get to the ""Gentle Giant" thread on the Feedback section" you mentioned in your post?

Thanks!

Rob (the other one)

HI Rob,

Here is the link:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=348

Thanks Rob.

Very nice to have a track that's an example of the Pasv4 near direct AND a great performance of a great tune!!

I might have to go back and listen to the Giant again. For some reason I grew tired of them after years of being a die hard fan. Saw them numerous times at the Roxy and the Whiskey A-Go-Go and maybe the Santa Monica Civic(?) and I have the first 5 or 6 albums. Absolutely mind blowing. I love your arrangement by the way. Captures the tune very well.

Anyone out there that missed 'em in the 70's should check them out. One of my favorite "prog" bands when "prog" meant whatever it did in the '70's. Wait, let me put that a little more consiserer.

Cheers!

Rob Cathcart

Saw then twice in Boston in the course of 3 weeks when they were touring for the Free Hand album. Apparently they were in town early so they played as an unannounced guest backing up Steppingwolf and Peter Frampton! What a mismatch! A friend of mine was a DJ at a local college radio station and found out they would be there so we went. They played a lot from In a Glass house, Octopus and 3 Friends. Then 3 weeks later I saw them headline at the Ophium (sp)Theater for the Free Hands tour and they played 75% different material from the previous 3 weeks. REALLY mind blowing to be ready to play two very different shows in one month and nail them both. Especially when you consider how complex their arrangements are. They are my very favorite prog rock band ... then Crimson, Yes, Uk, etc. etc. etc.!