Hi everyone!

I've been considering a Chapman Stick for a long time and occasionally lurking on the boards to learn more about it. I was glad to see the recent discussion about applying the Stick to blues and rock music since I'd probably use it for a lot of high-gain playing on the melody side. All of the posts in that thread were very useful to understanding what I'll be able to do when I finally decide to buy a Stick. Not the rude posts but everything else

By looking at the different models I think an 8 string has the basics of what I'd want, a 10 string has fun extra possibilities that let me do more, and a 12 string may just be overkill. It's like my 5 string bass; I don't need to buy another bass for any reason, but whenever I tune up the low B string I realize it's not something I really need except for slapping a low B or D every now and then just because it's there. Having the right tool for the job feels more efficient so I might feel better going for the most used number of strings rather than the most strings I can pile on.

However...that GIANT low C is going to create a lot of magnetism that could be picked up on the melody side. with high gain it would be multiplied. Even on an 8 string I don't think the slight extra gap is going to keep the melody pickups from hearing the percussive goodness on the low C.

Is this magnetism the main source of crosstalk? If so, would an 11 string Stick be the best anti-crosstalk weapon? By taking a typical grand and leaving the space for string #7 blank but starting with the low C in string 8's spot a "Matched Recpirocal 5+6" tuning could be done.

Or if crosstalk is still really bad it could be 5+5 tuning could be done with a 7+5 pickup, but with the seven slots under the bass side's 5 strings so the melody pickup is two string spaces farther away.

Are either of these ideas even worth considering? Anyone with any stick could try the following test:

1) Plug the melody side into "melt your face" distortion at comfortable and normal listening volumes
2) Use one hand to hold the low C string so it does not move AT ALL
3) Use the other hand to tap on the low G string using percussive techniques
4) Then use one hand to hold BOTH of your lowest bass strings while the other hand taps on the 3rd bass string

Did you hear any crosstalk from the low G in the melody side's distortion? What about bass D string? Was the crosstalk the same as when you weren't physically holding the strings in place? If so this extra wide stick distance theory is probably shot to pieces. I'd like to know if that's what I should consider for my future stick though. Those with the Roland VG-88 pickups say the crosstalk doesn't seem to be there but I'd really rather not have the expense and complication of the Roland gear on top of the Stick expense and complication!

I would rather eliminate the crosstalk problem physically than with high-pass filters to because I'd want fun percussion sounds on the melody side and they would lose their bass if I applied a filter first. So if a "7+5 10 string" is what I need to make my distortion "crosstalk free," it sounds like the best route. Maybe even a "7+5 8 string" but I'd absolutely prefer the two groups of five strings if I can definitely get the tone I want.

Also, would a different pickup make a difference? I heard this thread and both pickups sound great.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1762&hilit=stickup

But do the different pickups have a noticeable crosstalk difference or noticeable signal to noise ratio difference at high gain?

Thanks everyone!

Dave

Hi Dave,

The best way for you to go with minimal crosstalk would be a Ten String Grand with a PASV-4. Based on the kind of music yuo say you're interested in, I think that would be the best configuration for other reasons as well.

1. Blues means lots of string bending. so that extra space between the strings would be a plus form that angle, too.

2. The PASV-4 is the most versatile pickup, capable of lots of different rock and blues tones.

There's another element to crosstalk that doesn't get talked about much, and that is the physical vibration of the instrument itself. If the instrument is fairly "inert" like the Stick is, there will be less tendency to transmit vibrations from one side to the other through the structure. If it has a lot of resonances, then there's no way to avoid transmission if both string groups are vibrating at the same time.

The harder you play, the less of an issue crosstalk becomes as the desired vibration is going to get picked up at an exponentially higher level than the one you don't want by virtue of how close it is to the pickup.

Hope that helps.

Thank you for the information Greg.

Basically it sounds like my previous post was the speculation of a newbie then. But for extra clarity while I consider my choices I'd like to ask a little more:

1) Judging by the tone of the pickups I'm not sure which I like better (versatility is nice, but the low stickup bass I've heard doesn't seem to be a part of the Block pickups) , but would the PASV-4 also work against crosstalk due to its electronics?

2) I do a lot of string bending so that extra spacing might be good. But...

3) I imagine I will be using a lot of double stops and percussive stick effects with each hand, so I wouldn't want to make that more difficult with wider spacing. I also plan to learn LH bass like in Guitarresque and the recent Tomorrow Never Knows video. I thought the close string spacing might be good for double stops (suddenly I love bass chords now), but would wider string spacing make that noticeably more difficult? I kind of want a jack-of-all-trades instrument for every style I run across.

Thanks again for your detailed and helpful answers.

Dave

i personally love having a 12 and wanted one since the beginning (have just sold my 10 string). Unless you have small hands or need a bit more space between strings, the 12 offers all combinations.

For electric high gain stuff, i actually like the sound from the PASV 4 more than the ACTV 2 i had on my last stick as it offers neck position fuller cleans but a bridge pickup for the lead sound, and combination neck/bridge for a les paul sound. It's very versatile and crosstalk is less of a problem than expected.

The main source of cross talk is as you suggest the bass string bleeding into a highly distorted melody sound, and rarely the other way round. I've noticed it's ALOT worse if compression is applied on the melody side so it's better to get natural compression from the drive than add it later.

i actually think your 12 string minus one idea might work and could easily be tried on a factory standard setup by shifting each bridge block across one and tweaking the truss - not much to lose in experimenting and you'd have an easier time hitting the bottom melody string without hitting the bass string. Crosstalk is an issue but it's not unsurmountable at all even in standard setup. A noise gate, no compression and natural drive don't normally cause me any probs. I've also found tube amp overdrive has less issues than modeller overdrive in fuzzing out the bass crosstalk.

Good luck with it all!

Hi Dave,

You're most welcome.

I don't know much about the electronics of the PASV-4 (it's all very secret "black-box" stuff with Villex, completely unique technology). I do know that it's the "hottest" pickup system, active or passive that I've ever seen on any instrument.

I suspect that the reason why it's so good in the crosstalk department is the "focus" of the pickup, and the fact that you don't need much gain in your processing to get the same kind of overdriven sound.

It doesn't tend to pick up much "off-axis" in the high frequencies. Since that's where the percussive attack of The Stick resides, the tendency would be to interfere less that with a pickup that had a broader "window". By contrast, The Stickup tends to pick up the high frequencies off-axis more than the lows.

The ACTV-2 also has good crosstalk rejection.

As far as the double-stops and movement in bass lines goes...

The spacing is less on a Ten String Grand than on an SB-8, but more than on a standard 10-string. I have a Ten String Grand on order that I'll be using as a "super-bass" instrument (DBR tuning with PASV-4)

I only mention the issue of double-stops as something to compare the feeling of one instrument with another. I do notice it when I play a Ten String Grand, but I think that's only because that's what I'm used to. If you are used to playing bass, you'll probably really like the extra string spacing of the Ten String Grand.

I like the way the narrower neck feels on the standard 10-string. It's very sleek and "minimalist" I notice this especially when I try to play instrument with much wider necks.

From the description of tone and tech, everything I've been thinking about with Stick matches your recommendations for the PASV-4 and Ten String Grand.

Thank you Bergerbrain and Greg.