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:shock: another tuning post?
https://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1403		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  jeffcomas [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  :shock: another tuning post?
I am generally happy with with the MR tuning of my 12-string Grand Stick. Although after reading all the posts in "Yet another tuning post" http://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1303 I am considering standard tuning. but, that is not what this is about.

All that tuning discussion has got me thinking about 2 other tuning possibilities.
1. Has any Stickist ever tried tuning in major thirds? Here are some links that explore the idea for guitar.
http://v2p0.m3guitar.com/
http://ralphpatt.com/Tune.html
It looks to me like this would be the ultimate tuning for those interested in a lot of walking bass. Scales could be played mostly with 2 fingers/string in one position, but with 10 or 12 strings each hand could have considerable range. Chords look fairly easy.

2. Is it physically possible to tune an 8-string instrument in straight 5th's? Is anybody doing this? Scales, & big extended runs seem to be easily facilitated in fifths tuning, using a 4 note/string (2 fingers/hand), one zone playing technique.
Author:  Olivier [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
Hi Jeff

Roman Giza has been busking for years in Spain. His Stick is tuned in major 3ds.

Here's a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKb8t7BoHso

Enjoy!

Olivier
Author:  jeffcomas [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
Thanks for the link. Interesting posture he has adapted there, pretty much like a guitar posture twisted off to the side.

I'll bet that Stick flight-case takes holds a lot of tip money. ;)

His comping sounds nice.

Still I wonder if some Jazz enthusiast could really go to town with walking bass using a major 3rds tuning.
Author:  ShaneCarey [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
Jeff, I'm not saying this to discourage exploration or your specific suggestion. No doubt a thirds tuning offers lots of new melodic possibilities, just as any new tuning would do.

What doesn't appeal to me is the idea of trying this tuning to facilitate zone playing. Lots of the Stick's technique and innovations add to ease of play, and not having to move would certainly be another thing made easy. But not wanting to move seems a bit of a trap. I know some areas of the fretboard better than others, so I may often start phrases in a particular position, but I'm glad to have trained my hands to move up and down the neck as needed. For me, that's where the ease comes from -- being able to move to whatever position is best for what I'm playing, and knowing the patterns and relative intervals at any given point (even if I couldn't necessarily tell you what key I'm in without some thought).

If I were playing in a major thirds tuning, I'd be more interested in the chordal possibilities than in position playing. I'd want to get the same pattern knowledge, so that I could still move up and down for the sake of articulation and string choice even when all of the notes might fall under one position.

A two-finger approach, with movement, suits me just fine even in the fifths tuning, since the notes fall into the same patterns (what Emmett called "Fourths To Infinity"), albeit in different registers. I don't find walking bass to be at all difficult in this tuning, since moving around removes the difficulties of trying to reach all the notes in a single position; once I choose the notes, playing them is the easy part (though I'm sure it would be clear from my choices that I'm no jazz cat).

Again, not disparaging the tuning, just (perhaps over-)reacting to the specific mention of "one zone playing technique."
Author:  jeffcomas [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
Shane, thanks for your thoughtful reply. :)

For purpose of clarity I will use the term position to mean a range of frets (like on guitar, in the first position finger 1 is at fret 1, finger 2 at fret 2, etc.). I will use zone to mean the bass side or the melody side of the Stick.

As a guitar player of many years, it is hard to break away from position playing. I certainly have been trying to, even on guitar.

I agree that in a cretin way position playing can be a trap. I suppose there could be traps in motion along the string(S) too. Motion in two directions, both along and across the strings obviously gives us the most flexibility but is also much more complex to master.

FTW, I'm not really trying to advocate major thirds tuning. Just trying to discuss ideas and observations with people who have a clue of what I am talking about. ;)

Quote:
2. Is it physically possible to tune an 8-string instrument in straight 5th's? Is anybody doing this? Scales, & big extended runs seem to be easily facilitated in fifths tuning, using a 4 note/string (2 fingers/hand), one zone playing technique.


So, by zone, in this quote, I was referring to a one sided instrument like an 8-string bass, tuned in straight 5ths, all the way across the neck. Or, a 16-string uber-grand stick with the melody side loped off :lol: . I have noticed many members say they take the roll of the bass in their bands, and are using two hands on the bass side. I know I certainly have had fun experimenting with two hands in the bass zone.

So, again I ask...does anyone know if it is physically possible to tune an 8-string (SB8 or NS-Stick) instrument in straight 5th's? I think what would be a fun instrument to play.

Thanks again for your discussion. :)
Author:  jeffcomas [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
Quote:
2. Is it physically possible to tune an 8-string instrument in straight 5th's? Is anybody doing this? Scales, & big extended runs seem to be easily facilitated in fifths tuning, using a 4 note/string (2 fingers/hand), one zone playing technique.


Quote:
So, by zone, in this quote, I was referring to a one sided instrument like an 8-string bass, tuned in straight 5ths, all the way across the neck. Or, a 16-string uber-grand stick with the melody side loped off :lol: . I have noticed many members say they take the roll of the bass in their bands, and are using two hands on the bass side. I know I certainly have had fun experimenting with two hands in the bass zone.

So, again I ask...does anyone know if it is physically possible to tune an 8-string (SB8 or NS-Stick) instrument in straight 5th's? I think what would be a fun instrument to play.
Author:  greg [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
jeffcomas wrote:
Quote:
2. Is it physically possible to tune an 8-string instrument in straight 5th's? Is anybody doing this? Scales, & big extended runs seem to be easily facilitated in fifths tuning, using a 4 note/string (2 fingers/hand), one zone playing technique.


Quote:
So, by zone, in this quote, I was referring to a one sided instrument like an 8-string bass, tuned in straight 5ths, all the way across the neck. Or, a 16-string uber-grand stick with the melody side loped off :lol: . I have noticed many members say they take the roll of the bass in their bands, and are using two hands on the bass side. I know I certainly have had fun experimenting with two hands in the bass zone.

So, again I ask...does anyone know if it is physically possible to tune an 8-string (SB8 or NS-Stick) instrument in straight 5th's? I think what would be a fun instrument to play.

Hi Jeff,

I think at one time Jim Lampi was using an SB7 (a rare narrow 7-string that Emmett made a few of) in inverted 5ths from low A as a bass instrument for accompyaning a singer/guitarist.

Six strings in 5ths already has a pretty huge range:

http://www.stick.com/instruments/tunings/12/classic_66/

with the bass side going all the way up to B below high melody D.

Eight 5ths wouldn't work. I believe there are some 8-string players who are using a Crafty-oriented tuning of 6 strings in "non-inverted" 5ths with a minor 3rd and a major 2nd stacked on top.

Hope that answers your question.
Author:  jeffcomas [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
Quote:
Eight 5ths wouldn't work. I believe there are some 8-string players who are using a Crafty-oriented tuning of 6 strings in "non-inverted" 5ths with a minor 3rd and a major 2nd stacked on top.

Hope that answers your question.


It sure does. I suspected as much. Thanks Greg.
Author:  ixlramp [ Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
jeffcomas wrote:
2. Is it physically possible to tune an 8-string instrument in straight 5th's? Is anybody doing this? Scales, & big extended runs seem to be easily facilitated in fifths tuning, using a 4 note/string (2 fingers/hand), one zone playing technique.

Sorry for replying to an old thread, but i am very interested in the single-region all-fifths concept, and can also answer this question.

It is understandable why many would not be aware of this, but strings able to tune to as low as C#0 (17 Hz, 2 fourths below bass guitar B) have been available and in use since 2004, when i was active in the Extended Range Bass (ERB) forums.
At that time Conklin Guitars sold .195 C#0 strings and Garry Goodman was developing his own custom strings for his 11 and 12 string ERBs tuned in all-fourths, which he plays mostly using 2 hand tapping.

Assuming D4 as the highest possible open pitch on a 34" scale (this is the highest open pitch used by Stick Enterprises) and going down in fifths the tuning would be:

D4
G3
C3
F2
Bb1
Eb1
Ab0
Db0

The lowest being C#0.

So yes physically possible, although many would consider the C#0 string too low to be musically useful, and many would find the dark tone of such a thick string unacceptable (some like it, it is a matter of personal taste). On a 34" scale a gauge like .195 is very thick for its length, which makes it inherently stiff and a little inharmonic.

If anyone is interested in trying, i recommend Kalium Strings, who have improved the flexibility and tone of large gauge ERB strings, and have length options long enough for a 36" Stick.

I am enthusiastic about the concept of 7 strings in all-fifths, which could start from that low Ab0 and can be done using Stick Enterprises strings.
Ab0 is just a little lower than the B of a bass guitar so creates a somewhat ideal range, considering that on a tapper the 1st fret is partly unusable, which would make the lowest pitch roughly Bb0.
I was looking at a post in this forum of a SB7 tuned in fifths, that is my ideal Stick.
Author:  Big George Waters [ Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: :shock: another tuning post?
I seem to think that the Warr folks were able to pull this off... 5ths over 8 strings, but I cannot say that with absolute certainity... and looking at their website, it's obviously not possible... they have a Crafty tuning which I believe is how my new RB-8 will be set up: http://warrguitars.com/tunings

Proper sound reproduction is paramount with me, hence why I am superstitious of these massive string gauges... as it is hard enough to properly amplify a low E on a P Bass to where folks really hear it - and feel it - properly.

Somewhere here on Sticklist I mused about 8 strings tuned in 5ths, and Emmett put a quick stop to that.

Besides, the Crafty tuning is way more fun anyway :) :) :)

*Thank being said, I am loving my 8 string Guitar Intervals !!
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