Not sure if you've seen this, but this should give you an idea of how the left hand physically lines up in a 5ths bass tuning.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TZi0qKzKCM[/youtube]

Thanks for posting that video Claire.

The more vertically you position the instrument the easier it is to rotate your arm to give you natural, comfortable angles for all the common chords.

Lower angles make it harder to use the natural shape of the hand for sustaining notes in the chords.

Almost every chord you will use lays out over only three frets in the inverted 5hs tuning, so reaching them is not nearly the problem it could be.

When you're only playing one note at a time, stretching isn't an issue at all when hand movement it employed (and, well, it should be...)

Hi Rob. In regards to you being able to span frets, I think you will find Greg's approach of hand and arm movement a big help whichever way you chose to go. Would your disorder hinder this kind of movement? If so you may be on the right track with the SG12. But even with the smaller scale length there are many advantages to attacking the strings from above(from the direction of the nut down towards the direction of the bridge) or below(the other way) rather than a "typing" approach. If you attack the strings with a staight downward motion(typing) you will definitely need a greater stretching ability in your hand.

If it is low notes that please your ear, I would try as best I could to attempt the Grand(or a 10 string, the neck is narrower and reaching the tenth string is easier). You may feel more inspired by the deep rich tones that are possible on the longer scale instruments. And to be inspired is key when desiring to master an instrument or composition. It will be holding down major chords, suspended 4th chords and maj7 chords with the right hand(on the bass side) that will be the challenge if your reach is lessened by your disorder. But you can lighten the strain by leaving out the 5th, allowing a greater span between the index and ring finger to hold down the root and the 10th(which often replaces the 3rd on the bass side). Do you intend to play mostly instrumental music? or do you plan to sing the melody? If you do the latter, you could use both hands together to make a fuller sounding chord.

Anyway, check out Greg's videos if you havent. The whole idea of hand and arm movement really changed the way I play(for the better, I think)!

If you have struggled long with any kind of disability, I am sure you are more than capable of adapting your own playing style. I would love to hear how you grow in this. I have a friend who suffers from Juvenile rhumatiod arthritis and though he would love to learn an instrument, feels that would be impossible. I have often wondered if the Stick might not be the perfect solution for him. I mean, technically, one could play the Stick with only one or two fingers. It would drastically change the way you approach the instrument, but what a joy it would be to make music when before it seemed impossible.

Good luck in your endeavers!

Mike

Thanks for posting that video, Claire. It has long been in the group of lessons at the top of my Chapman Stick YouTube playlist, and I really should have thought to view it with an eye toward this subject. I will watch it again after I finish typing this.

Greg's approach of using hand and arm movement is easy for my right hand and possible for my left hand. At worst, my left fingers' note attack would be inconsistent. When that happens, I will just call it "Fremen Jazz" and laugh it off.

Thanks for the kind words, Mike. I plan to document my Stick journey thoroughly, once it finally starts. I have absolutely no problem with being the Django of the Stick.

I have just finished modeling frets X-4 of the Grand Stick, based on heavy string gauges, in SketchUp. Here is the drawing, in case anyone might find it useful. Everything is accurate to one thousandth of one inch, and spacing intervals are on-center, except for the estimated width and positioning of the damper. After a short break, I will add a model of my left fingertips' maximum stretch so that I can move my virtual fingers around my virtual Grand Stick.

I always knew the estimate of my fingertips' positions would introduce inaccuracy to the proceedings, but the end result is believable. The following image shows the maximum stretch my left hand will make in free air while relaxed, though having a place to anchor my thumb would increase the range a bit.

In order to make this as neutral as possible, I did not attempt to simulate changing the angle of my arm to make the stretch more ergonomic (the stretch was comfortable). I also did not attempt to replicate any particular fingering; my index finger was positioned to play the X fret cleanly: every other finger's position is the result of the fixed spacing which represents the maximum stretch.

It seems to me, based on this estimate, that the Grand Stick is "within reach."

What are your thoughts?

How much different is a 34" scale instrument as far as fret spacing is concerned? It might be that a used 34" instrument or a Railboard would provide a little relief on that front. If it does not, disregard the rest of this post...an SG12 might be the only workable option after all.

Over the past year or so, you have stated several preferences and issues you're trying to balance: you like the bottom end, cost is a factor, you want 12 string range, you've recently realized that fret spacing might be an issue, and possibly more. It's a real challenge to compromise among all those considerations, as some of them are mutually exclusive of others. I guess it depends on how important the two extra strings really are (if you prefer to buy new), and how much you'd miss the the bottom end when playing an SG12.

If it's gotta be new, and 34" scale length actually makes enough difference, then a Railboard sounds like the best option, as it only "compromises" on the number of strings (which I personally think of as a luxury, having heard what I've heard from various players). An SG12 compromises on cost and bottom end.

Any used 34" Grands on ebay?

Answering this in reverse order seems to make the most sense.

I think I have only ever seen one 34 inch Grand with a Flaps nut on eBay. The evolution of the Stick over the years makes me want to buy new, and the revisions to the bridge and nut are of equal importance to me—if I had to, I could do without the revised truss rod. I have never had the opportunity to buy a used Stick at a discount significant enough to offset those advancements, however.

Comparing the 34 inch scale to the 36 inch scale, the former is 0.113 inches smaller at the X fret and 0.088 inches smaller at the fourth fret (the SG12 is 0.534 inches and 0.423 inches smaller, respectively). The Railboard has been my fallback for some time, sacrificing the versatility of the PASV-4 Block and the additional fingering options of the additional two strings. Whereas many knowledgeable players have said that the additional two strings are not necessary, there is no such thing as too many positioning options when you are a spastic. My grandmother is quite adamant that see will get me a Grand Stick this year if she can (see this thread), otherwise the Railboard is easily the most I can hope for (with my grandmother chipping in just enough to make it possible). Man, just seeing that thread again made me wistful.

I see the SG12 as less of a compromise to my particular goals than the Railboard would be, all things considered, but let us not kid ourselves. Obtaining a Stick of any description would be pretty much miraculous. I remain this forum's most prolific wannabe (though my self-imposed exile for prototyping work probably put a dent in that), if not Alpha Geek (does anyone remember this post?)—second to Emmett himself, obviously.

Come to think of it, I need to update my rather epic Gig Rig thread.

i did. the last two sentences. FREEHANDS is a book.
when i started playing again 5yrs ago i was ON MY BACK. so i can appreciate disabilities. when my last Stick was purchased it was under my sister's name because I HAD TO SELL MY LIFE INSURANCE so i could be elligable for medicaid to have my surgeries. im still worth about 500 bucks. poverty line? how does foodstamps, foodbanks, soup kitchens, medical transportation, sound. im gradually digging myself out of this hole but it's been FOUR LONG YEARS. wanna trade crosses?

Firstly, you should probably edit out the part of your post that I redacted from the quote.

The mention of my financial situation was not directed at you; you were thoughtful enough not to assume I had the option of spending thousands of dollars. You will probably find that you and I have a metric ton more common ground than reason to argue; in fact, I just deleted an entire paragraph of things you and I probably have in common because I do not want to hijack my own thread.

I am glad that you found a way to get a Stick, and I hope your fight continues with good progress. I am presently in my third year, myself, but that is really just the latest phase of what forced me out of college almost 10 years ago. Next week will mark four months since Zombie Rob was slain.

Having said all that, can you tell me what part of Free Hands discusses transitioning to the Stick's scale length? I have long considered buying some Stick tuition ahead of the instrument order, but I am not sure that I want to run the risk of having it sitting around while Sisyphus and I talk about how awesome playing Stick would be.

Oh yes, I did! I'd been a guitar player for several decades when I got a 36" Grand three years ago. Obviously the fret spacing is bigger than on the shorter scale guitar, but that no big deal because the Stick and the Guitar are very, very different instruments and your guitar skills do not spill over. After one year with the Grand I got an SG-12 and now, when I have learned to play the Sticks, I use the SG-12 a lot more. But not because of its fret spacing, mostly because of its sound due to the shorter strings. I really don't like when a long scale Stick sounds "clunky" in a way that only too long and too sloppy strings can. Some Stick players stay free from this "artefact", for example Bob Culbertson, but with the SG-12 you will have the singing and resonating sonic character in place from square one! So it is not a solution to simply "play in the higher frets" on a long scale Stick; that won't make it shimmer like shorter strings do. Secondly, I also prefer the SG-12 because of its light weight and comfy portability. I've been toying with the thought of selling my Grand in order to afford a second Bamboo SG-12 for backup; that's how much I love the SG-12 model. My last two uploaded videos give a good example of this SG-12 sound I've grown so fond of: https://www.youtube.com/perboysen

Oh, and the SG-12 feels quite close to a guitar's neck regarding the fret spacing.