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 Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”? 
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
Jayesskerr wrote:

Well, theory alone doesn't teach you how to play anything - and violin has some extremely specific things going on there, like any instrument so that's a no to theory alone. How to hold the bow, bowing, vibrato, slurs, etc That stuff comes with and from a lot of instruction and practice. Sure there's the exception to the rule, but it's rare...


One of the things I realized over the years was just how
much technique you can use with The Stick. Training your body
along these lines will really help you connect with the instrument.

It's a deceptively simple instrument. Yes you tap the strings and you get a "note".
But everything else that goes into it is what makes that note music.

This is why the first thing I teach people is basic technique. The rest will come.

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Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:47 am
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
greg wrote:
Jayesskerr wrote:

Well, theory alone doesn't teach you how to play anything - and violin has some extremely specific things going on there, like any instrument so that's a no to theory alone. How to hold the bow, bowing, vibrato, slurs, etc That stuff comes with and from a lot of instruction and practice. Sure there's the exception to the rule, but it's rare...


One of the things I realized over the years was just how
much technique you can use with The Stick. Training your body
along these lines will really help you connect with the instrument.

It's a deceptively simple instrument. Yes you tap the strings and you get a "note".
But everything else that goes into it is what makes that note music.

This is why the first thing I teach people is basic technique. The rest will come.
Happy Birthday, Greg!
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Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:17 am
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
Mr. Chapman says you can become a great Stick player just by learning the patterns in the Free Hands book. Free Hands is a must have for any player, no matter the tuning. It teaches you both hands individually, or if you're in 10 string classic tuning, you can use the big one handed chords.

Ultimately you learn some theory, as you go, as Free Hands lends itself to theory very well. I also heard him say that he is not sure what notes he is playing all the time, he just starts somewhere and lets his fingers and mind fly, and would have to think if you asked him what notes or chords he was playing. I am sure that may not be exactly as i am remembering, but I think I understood.

Free Hands, as well as the books from Mr. Howard, and Mr. Adelson,, as well as all the videos available from Mr. Culbertson and others, get you pretty dangerous.

It is a life changing instrument, if you so choose to walk the path.

Learn by any means possible.
Good luck.


Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:50 am
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
paigan0 wrote:
I had not independently rediscovered 800 years or so of music theory on my own. I may have re-invented a wheel or two, but there was a vast internal combustion engine of music I knew nothing about. I didn't even know what I didn't know.

IMO, this is the biggest reason for learning theory, or really getting instruction on anything: it's possible to figure (some) things out on your own, but the time and effort to do so is far greater ... and do you really want to spend your lifetime (hopefully) "rediscovering" what others already spent their lifetimes discovering the first time?

paigan0 wrote:
The only entry requirement to learning Stick, in my humble opinion, is having a Stick, and keep Sticking with it.

<rimshot/> ;)

Jayesskerr wrote:
Have you considered taking lessons? Steve and Greg would talk a bit of theory in as you learn some tunes...

Once I have my head wrapped around the nature and technical details of the Stick a little better (and obviously then having a Stick in hand), lessons would definitely be in plan. Although working theory into the mix would be beneficial, the primary reason would be ...

greg wrote:
This is why the first thing I teach people is basic technique. The rest will come.

... this right here. Getting basic, proper technique down from the get-go is IMO the biggest reason to get lessons at the start. Bad technique hampers development, and unlearning bad technique is much harder than learning it properly the first time.

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Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
"this right here. Getting basic, proper technique down from the get-go is IMO the biggest reason to get lessons at the start. Bad technique hampers development, and unlearning bad technique is much harder than learning it properly the first time."

Yes.

Unless your are so great that you can develop a technique on your own.
I feel I have wasted much time in the beginning, with the death grip, stuck in a box Etc. Technique I think is the most frustrating thing for me.
The way you think it should be done, and the way most people do it, or the "correct" way of touching the strings, is difficult, to decipher, because you are training your mind, and hands to do something in a way that you are not comfortable with, yet. the intuitive nature will come with practise.
Proper practise is key. Eventually your hands become part of the instrument, as the instrument is an extension of the self.


Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:23 am
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
ReyStick wrote:
"this right here. Getting basic, proper technique down from the get-go is IMO the biggest reason to get lessons at the start. Bad technique hampers development, and unlearning bad technique is much harder than learning it properly the first time."

Yes.

Unless your are so great that you can develop a technique on your own.
I feel I have wasted much time in the beginning, with the death grip, stuck in a box Etc. Technique I think is the most frustrating thing for me.
The way you think it should be done, and the way most people do it, or the "correct" way of touching the strings, is difficult, to decipher, because you are training your mind, and hands to do something in a way that you are not comfortable with, yet. the intuitive nature will come with practise.
Proper practise is key. Eventually your hands become part of the instrument, as the instrument is an extension of the self.


But hey, unless you have someone right there to tell you "put your hand here, elbows out" etc etc a big part of learning this will be trial and error, I mean lots of us have prior knowledge and experience that we just do NOT want to separate... Having the ability to approach this from a "blank slate" is tough for a bunch of us.

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Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:28 am
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
I'm self taught on multiple instruments. The most important thing for me, is to slow things down at first and sound out your notes. Learn how to get the tones that you want, then slowly speed things up. Don't try too hard, or you may become frustrated. Just have fun with the learning experience. Don't be afraid to try new things. I do the same thing with Saxophones and the Roli SeaBoard. All of these instruments allow unique expression and emotion to be injected into what would otherwise be a sterile tune.

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Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:54 pm
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
I have to agree with ixlramp, when it comes to proper learning of music, as I myself - as an experimental/improvising musician... honestly could not be bothered with playing by the rules...

On the other hand, when Wayne Koehler generously and without warning introduced me to the circle of fifths back in either 1991, or 92... probably 1991... I was all ears and fingers.

Two hours later, I was informed that I received 5 years of training, and that a few pints of Guinness at Peggy O'Neils up the street was in order.

I personally think above all - it is of the utmost importance to fully understand ones instrument inside and out to be able to further ones craft.

How one goes about this is neither here nor there - but the important thing is one has the complete understanding of their instrument to get the job done.

Even today, I consider my time with Wayne a huge impact on my life, as he attended one of the Guitar Craft seminars in NYC during the 1980s, and went on to study with Tony Gerballe after studying with Robert...

Now, I must mention at this point in time that i do have a thorough knowledge of where every note falls on any of the variety of tunings I use, but I must make mention that to this day I am strictly a player by ear.

I cannot read or write music, which I view as a mixed blessing.... nor can I say with absolute certainty the names of the notes which I just played, which has caused me problems in the past when playing with "by the book" musicians.

On the other hand, when I was frequenting studios in NYC with my ringing and singing frettless jazz bass [a legit 1960 Fender body with an old Schecter neck...] I was paid the highest compliment one could ever expect, especially since from a technical standpoint I probably leave much to be desired:

That I play with feeling........... and have a completely original sound.

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Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
You don't necessarily need to know theory, after all a punk can spazz out on a stick just as well as on any instrument or thing that produces sound. If you're referring however to the ubiquity of heady prog music played on the stick, (my guess is because almost everyone finds out about it from listening to King Crimson, duh!) and this is what you also want to play then yeah, knowing some theory would help. (My BS opinion here, that box has been checked by stick players.)

I recommend:
1) Get both hands synced up so you can nail all 12 root notes quickly.
This means playing an A with both hands simultaneously over and over until you don't miss, then same thing with another note, etc. Try a song like "Bluesette" a waltz by Toots Theilsman, the progression has 11 of 12 possible root notes. Forget the melody, just play the root notes of the chords until perfect, then add the major or minor 3rds, repeat until clean, then add the 7ths. You'll notice shapes repeating. This song is just an exercise, ultimately pick songs you love.

2) Develop relative pitch by conceptualizing the major scale using intervals / numbers. Instead of thinking C,D,E, or D,E,F#, or Eb,F,G, you can think 1,2,3 for all or them. Think of the song 'Frere Jaques / Are You Sleeping' , it goes 1,2,3,1, 1,2,3,1, 3,4,5, 3,4,5. Get it? Use stupid nursery rhymes like this and your ear will shape up fast. You know the song 'Thus Spake Zarathustra' aka 2001 theme? It goes (brass) 1 < 5 < 8 , < 3 b3 !!!! (Tympani drum) 1, 5, 1, 5, 1, 5, 1. Also known as the Nashville system, this numeric concept, 1 through 8, is the shortcut deluxe. It changed my life. Once you train your ear you can play anything your technique will allow.


Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:27 pm
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Post Re: Is thorough theory knowledge a Stick “entry requirement”
GCC's 2 recommendations are along the lines I've always taught and they seem friendly to the Stick fretboard layout. His 2nd recommendation is about numbers (versus lettered notes) and applies equally well to any key, just like the fretboard itself with its uniform intervals.

It's a double numbers game:

- 1 to 7 with flats and sharps to account for the 12 tempered tones.

- Roman numerals for the chords within a given key (tonic chord is Roman numeral "I").

As far as I know, we only have those two sets of numbers, the Roman and the European import from Arabia (our regular integers). This is a lot like our overlapping laws in "Western" countries - Roman law, English common law and American endless bickering.

I like these two sets of numbers, one applying to the scale and variations within the key, the other conveying meaning upon those notes by way of harmonic background (the chords).

You can take it further, escaping both lettered notes and numbers, just by playing "geographically", distances between the hands and the fingers of each hand.

To me, that's the ultimate Stick sensation, fingers sensing the fretboard with neutral tuning - 4ths/5ths across the board and semitones along the board.

Still, sometimes you have to tell others what you're doing.


Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:26 am
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