Does anyone have any experience with either of these pieces of equipment? (Or similar units from the same mfg..)

Avalon U5 Mono Instrument & DI Preamplifier
http://www.avalondesign.com/instrudi.html
or here:
http://tinyurl.com/nyhjo6s

or the Presonus Eureka
http://www.presonus.com/products/Eureka

I'm looking to overall increase the quality of the recordings I am making.
I'm using am Apogee Duet for the A/D, which is fairly good quality, and my instruments are generally good quality as well (Pedulla & Fender American Deluxe Jazz basses, plus a Martin acoustic guitar)

And I'm using a MacPro with GarageBand (which I am am considering upgrading to Logic Pro X)

And thoughts, suggestions, or experiences would be appreciated.

I've found that I can get a great bass or guitar sound through my gear, but whenever I record I get a dull, lifeless kind of sound. I've gotten better managing the various gain settings in the A/D and the software, but something just isn't coming through.

I've mic'd and gone direct with similar results (with the mic set up sounding slightly better)

Thanks

Randy

Would you mind describing the signal chains you are comparing?

I used the U5 for a long time. It's a great sounding unit and built like a tank. I used mine live and in the studio. All the Avalon gear sounds wonderful and is a real joy to use. I've never tried the Presonus. Though I would not put most presonus stuff in the same league as Avalon, it may give you what you want. It's always worth a try.
The Duet is a great piece of gear. So the lifeless problem is a bit curious.
What settings are you using when you record? Sample rate, EQ, effects, etc?
Do you have any examples of the kind of sound you're after?
It may be a gain staging issue, as you said. More details will help chase the problem down.
John

The U5 is thought of as the standard. I have one, and I use it from time to time w/ bass guitar... You can not go wrong. Also to check out, the Alembic FS-1 Tube Pre and the FSB-1 Stereo Pre. These are awesome rack mounted units that are just amazing. They are fashioned after the old Fender Bassman Pre's. Jack Casady, Sting, Trey Gunn, and a host of others use these, and they are about $1250.-$1300. Very, very nice warm sound.... one of my favorites!

^^^^
Alembics are great (correct model names are F-1X for the mono unit and F-2B for the stereo unit, modelled after the FenderBassman: http://www.alembic.com/prod/rackmount.html).
I have used the F-2B extensively with the Stick, but I found it a bit too aggressive in a live setting. My current favorite for the Stick are Universal Audio preamps, I use the pre section of two 6176, keeping the compression section bypassed.
If you are looking for warm tone, I would try and get a good deal on two Universal Audio Solo 610: they are a wonderful DI and microphone pre.

I'm a bit surprised about the tonal problems with Apogee, those are really nice pres, perhaps a touch too "analytic"...

for direct recording:
bass->Apgoee duet->Mac

for mic'd recording:
bass->Trace Elliot stack->microphone->Apogee duet->Mac

I can work on getting some samples as well...as far as settings and sample rates ( in response to another posting) - I will have to look throughout the various settings and system preferences/Apogee app to see what they are (this is where my lack of recording knowledge shows!

The Duet has great converters and the preamps are not bad either. The U5 is great. Doesn´t get much better than that. I would check out the U5 over the Presonus channel strip any day of the week. Another GREAT alternative to the U5 is the Brent Averill 1073 DPA. It´s a Neve clone.

http://www.baeaudio.com/products/1073dmp

I THINK that the 1073 DMP has an input transformer only on the mic input. The line in is electronically balanced. So if you want the classic Neve sound you need to go via a linebox and mic in when recording Stick/bass etc. I don´t have the DMP myself but I do have the rack version in the studio and I suspect they are rather similar regarding the DI in.

A GOOD quality preamp is as essential as good quality mic´s if not even more so when recording. Studios don´t buy these often very expensive stuff just cause it´s fun. They actually do good things to the sound so if you want to be picky, get a GOOD quality preamp. With that being said, the preamps in the Duet are not bad at all. Among the best when compared with other converters on the market. BUT good quality analog preamps will make a difference. Especially now with digital recordings.

BUT....!! What´s even more important is know-how about frequencies and sound in general. The best stuff on the market won´t save anyone if one does not know what he/she is doing when it comes to levels, frequencies etc. Know your frequencies, know your equipment! Knowledge. Most important thing ever. I have friends that has fantastic equipment but it sounds like shit anyway. I have friends that has shitty equipment and they know their stuff so it sounds good. They good guys with shitty equipment would be able to make it sound BETTER with better equipment. Absolutely. But most people in general would not hear that much of a difference. It´s the knowledge that is the most important thing. ANY day of the week.

And Logic X Pro is a great DAW software. It actually sounds better than Logic 9. Garageband is limited. If you get Logic X don´t (!!) forget to unlock the advanced functions under "settings". I was really confused there for awhile when I upgraded to X since I just could not work anymore. After digging around for half an hour I found where to unlock the advanced functions. Did not say anywhere that you had to do that to be able to work in the same way as in Logic 9 and I thought that they had fucked up the program totally and I had bought Garageband Pro or something.....

It´s amazing how much Logic X can do and it costs little money. I have Protools and Digital Performer as well. Especially Digital Performer is fantastic and has some fantastic functions especially when working with film. But it costs much more.

Hey Jan,
Digesting the rest of your posts right now, but right off the top:

If the Apogee has good quality preamps built in (which I have heard and was one of the reasons I bought it) - is there any benefit to running a U5 or Presonus in addition/before the Apogee?

Yeah I would say so. And I personally would opt for the U5. I´ve not tried the Presonus channel strip you linked to but Presonus MOSTLY makes rather low budget stuff. Avalon makes high end stuff. Some people seem to think that the more knobs and buttons you have, the better. I´d say that it´s alittle the other way around. NO eq and NO compressor is better than bad quality ones. What you want is the benefits you get from good quality preamp. So if I had to choose and don´t have lots of money to spend then I´ll skip eq and compressor and try something that has a very good preamp and only that. I have the same converters in my big Symphony system as you have in your Duet card. Great converters. I have a older Duet as well for my laptop. I like it. What I try to recommend for people that are interested in recording is to use good DI boxes and good preamps. Cause it does make a difference. I have one basic rule when it comes to DI boxes. Passive instrument, active DI box. Active instrument, passive DI box. I use U5´s and Radial JDI´s most of the time. The JDI´s have Jensen transformers in them. They sound great and I actually use them for passive instruments as well often. But that is my general rule. It sounds better plugging in a bass into the mic pre on a converter with a good quality line box between than plugging straight into a instrument input on a sound card. Is my opinion. It´s not a HUGE difference. But it´s the small things when added on top of each other that will help you get a better sound at the end. Piano and vox and not much more in the mix and you won´t notice a huge difference. Drums, synths, 32 channels of bg vox, guitars and stuff.... The preamps will make a big difference. But the most important thing is always to know your frequencies, your equipment, how to use fx´s etc.

What I would recommend you to do is to check with a music store or if you know someone that has a good preamp and ask if you could lend stuff over a weekend and just record stuff and compare what happens with the sound. You will learn from it and it will help you to decide what to get. First of all I would probably upgrade to Logic X. I personally hate Garageband. So a upgrade as step no 1 and then try stuff out before buying.

I could write about this kind of stuff forever.... Plugins.... Another matter. UA´s UAD plugins and Waves plugins sounds better than most stuff on the market. The plugins in Logic are decent but not really the best out there....

I´d say that your sound card is probably your smallest "problem". It´s a GOOD sound card. The fact that you use Garageband tells me that you are most likely rather new to recording. There are lots of things to learn. The sad thing is that it takes time to get experience and knowledge. But no equipment on the planet will help you if you don´t know what to do with what you have in front of you. That´s is the basic rule. So I´ll suggest the following.....:

1. Upgrade to Logic X.
2. LEND one or two good quality preamps and see what happens to the sound when recording. You´ll learn from it.
3. THEN buy something.

A Neve pre don´t sound the same as a SSL or Avalon pre. So try to figure out what you like. And there are some clones out there that are actually very good but costs less than the original. Brent Averill´s stuff is actually MORE true to the original than what AMS Neve themselfs sell now even tho they are the original. Just to mention one little odd fact that most people are not aware about.....

Anyway. Loan things before buying and learn as much as you can. My two cents.....