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 Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI" 
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Post Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI"
I am a 3-week beginner Stickist, as some here know, but I am already keen on using the melody side GK-3 MIDI pickup that I included with my 10-string. I love to experiment... :D

Has anyone tried using the fairly new (released in 2014) Boss GP-10? Can you recommend it for using it with melody side MIDI on a Stick (does it respond reasonably well for playing live)? I am fairly certain it will work well and wanted to know if anyone has tried it.

Here's a link about the Boss GP10:
http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetai ... uctId=1319

Thanks,

Chris


Last edited by VT1997 on Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin MIDI
Hey there!
I am also a newbie stickist (not even a week!) with GK-3 instl. on the melody side. That being said I've done my fair share of research on this (for several reasons) and thought I might help.
From what I understand, the GP-10 is almost entirely COSM ( Composite Object Sound Modeling . This means, like the VG-99/88/etc series before it, the box (generally) is NOT translating your pitch information into MIDI, then sending that MIDI to the GP-10's guitar tones.
Instead, the GP-10 collects AUDIO information from the GK-3 pickup and then, through some very fancy and complicated AUDIO algorithms, it virtually re-constructs your original tone into the new COSM tone. This means 0% latency (good for the stage!) because it's just altering your original audio signal. This goes for the synth/GR-300 sounds s well - as I understand it, just like the VG-99, the GP-10 is actually re-arranging the audio signal of your guitar into the sound of the gr-300/metheny tone, and other cool analog synth. sounds.
That's just inside the GP-10, though. I believe the box can also send pitch to MIDI info OUT of the box and to whatever computer VST or synthesizer you're liking.
The other roland unit, the GR-55, has both COSM amp modeling and two PCM synths inside of it that ARE triggered pitch to MIDI, so it has both in one box.

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Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin MIDI
Hey ProfQ, thanks for the info, as I did not bother to research COSM. (Lazy). :D Plus, I am a newbie when it comes to modern audio equipment (I always used standalone analog/digital pedals playing in college bands in the 90s and only played on/off until last year).

But, yeah, what you described about the GP-10 does make sense. I watched a demo of the box earlier today and the musicians were using MIDI and a blend of MIDI/audio to create various sounds in Logic Pro. I guess the PCM Synths of the GR55 would be a little more convenient but using external MIDI boxes should do the trick.

I think I will check out nearby stores to test drive the GP-10 with the Stick.

Do you have a guitar synth that works with your Stick's MIDI, yet? I personally see MIDI as something I could grow into on the Stick but in the more immediate future I want to provide a synthy backdrop within a jam context, while handling bass parts, all on the Stick.


Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin MIDI
I wish Roland/Boss would stop pretending that it is MIDI. Manufacturers of musical equipment, especially those who want their products to be considered as professional equipment, should use terms accurately or not at all.

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Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:38 pm
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin MIDI
Robstafarian wrote:
I wish Roland/Boss would stop pretending that it is MIDI. Manufacturers of musical equipment, especially those who want their products to be considered as professional equipment, should use terms accurately or not at all.


Yes, I agree, and it threw me off a bit to the point where it made me think twice about getting the GK pickup on the Stick. It reminds me of Apple's proprietary interface messing around. Maybe a rename to "MIDI" is in order. Luckily, I will gain some economy out of getting Roland's 13-pin "MIDI" plus all of the effects and output for Mac/PC plus audio out, whereas I was cluelessly figuring on other non-Roland "MIDI" boards.


Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:17 am
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI"
I have not purchased a sound source for my GK pickup yet, and I'm glad I waited. This looks nicely compact and capable.. I particularly like the potential of the MIDI out via USB..

Thanks for the heads up!

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Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI"
As for the Midi via USB I have a GR-55 and a VG-99 that I use with various GK-3 pickups and that both the Midi output via USB and the direct Midi are not very accurate. I have four GK-3's one on an SG-12 and the others on various other instruments. While the VG-99 and GR-55 in themselves put out very accurate output the Midi only output isn't. I use software synths with Ableton and I've found the Midi Guitar plug in to be more accurate or more to the point when there are errors they seem to be more musical. I know that it doesn't make much sense but that's been my experience. The VG has a number of Midi out settings but none of them seem to provide a good fix.


Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:45 am
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI"
The only Roland units I've used where the MIDI out wasn't painful were the dedicated GK to MIDI units (GI-10, GI-20).

Roland tried to go all MIDI with the GR-700 (back in the 80s) and that turned out to be a disaster. They took a wonderfully performing and even better sounding unit (the GR-300), replaced the sounds with some pretty sterile sounding digital sounds, and added noticeable latency to it. Yuck!

They've tried to add "GR-300" patches to several of their newer units but they've just never really managed to capture it. Probably why those units are so expensive these days when you can find them.

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Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:12 am
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI"
IIRC, the GR-700 didn't use MIDI internally (which is why, for instance, the MIDI out didn't send pitch bend, but the internal synth reacted to bends & there wasn't MIDI in)
It was still microprocessor pitch-to-glitch though.
The synthesizer voices were actually analog (it's basically a jx-3p hence the PG-200 use) , just under digital control...but that sure seemed enough to dry it out IMO

The GR-300 was significantly different, the "tracking (synched) oscillator" approach didn't really try to extract a pitch and derive a control signal. Instead, it tried to have the oscillators "follow along" with the input signal sort of (not exactly like, but it's a similar approach) like how a traditional flip-flop based octave divider does.
some of the practical upshots were things like attack noise just stayed as, well, attack noise...a part of the 'natural' sound - a pitch extractor wasn't getting confused trying to assign it a specific value making weird burbles; There wasn't that weird dissociating tracking delay that could really remove your connection to the sound; etc

That and the 300 used the GR-100 "cheat" by also using hex fuzz to act as another pseudo-oscillator (a'la EHX microsynth) -- weird thing was, those were in the guitars themselves

[funny note though : the interval-timer DCOs are kind of similar in terms of how the oscillators charge and run through their cycles -- but they are slaved to a clock signal, not to a processed audio signal - so they aren't operating from the audio at all]


but yeah, I don't regret selling my 700 way back, but I do regret selling my 300 -- they were great little beasts

I gave up on string synthesis in favor of aggressive processing for "synthy sounds" (I mean, after the OSC a traditional subtractive system is basically all signal processing anyway). That's a personal approach thing though & YMMV and I could change as the tech evolves (that and right now I have to concentrate on basic playing skills -- ouch frank sefl-awareness hurts)

It seems like Roland has at least kept the "process-instead-of-synthesize" 100/300(ish) philosophy alive in the VG series.
but I was disappointed when it seemed like the VG-88 started emphasizing the guitar/amp modelling over the HRM of the VG-8, but that seems like maybe that's come back in the newer stuff
(haven't really played anything newer than the vg-88, so that's just from what I'm seeing int he parameter lists and sound samples)



how's THAT for a long winded nostalgia trip


Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:03 am
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Post Re: Boss GP-10 with GR300 Synth/13-pin "MIDI"
Thanks for the background here, folks. I'm fairly close to ordering the GP-10. On a related thread, I posted about the GK breakout possibilities and doing my own thing, but this Roland/Boss unit looks to be the most "non-fuss" way to go about things and does not preclude introducing some crazy analog synth MIDI receiver, mainly for interesting events, at some point (with my custom PIC-based MIDI-CV controller, of course). The MIDI Out latency appeared to be minimal in the demos, which is nice. I suppose the other real winner with the GP-10, for me, is the huge number of effects, since I do not own any modern boxes at the moment. I'll post some demo sound bits (that do not attempt to express my undeveloped Stick playing :D ) once I have the Boss GP-10 in hand.


Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:02 pm
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