Latest update:

Got an email from Graph Tech this morning. I'd asked what their smallest saddle pickup is, and if the saddles are able to be modified:


I went to his site, and found some promising info on a mod he did for an 8 string guitar:
http://www.shotgunnmods.net
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p-HgLtyMj8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WrqRS27sYI[/youtube]

I emailed Mr. Dunn about this project and here's what he said:


So, my next step, again, is waiting. Once I receive the extra saddle screws and slide blocks from SE, I'm going to send a few to Mr. Dunn for "proof of concept". If he can make something work, then we shall be on the express train to MIDI-city

This whole concept is amazing to me! I log in multiple times a day seeing if this thread has any new posts. PLEASE keep us up to date.

Unfortunately I don't know much about midi, synth and other computer stuff. If one was able to add this to a stick what other equipment would be needed? Would you need a special computer program? Does the instrument have to then be hooked up to a computer somehow? How would all of this be set up?

Hi ComplexI, see this thread for more information:
http://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3532

I read that thread before moving onto this one. I meant a very basic explanation. Something like, "special cable plugs into special box, box connected to computer. Program x must be running on computer. Amp hooked up to computer with different special cable. To change effect must use mouse click on computer with special program running."

I know basically nothing about technology, but can defiantly see it's potential. What I do know is what sounds good, just need to figure out a way to get it from my head to everyone else's ears. lol

Basically you need a:
1) special type of pickup system (Roland GK or Ghost Piezo with Hexpander), and a 13 pin cable that plugs into a
2) pitch to midi converter (Roland GI-20, Axon AX-50/100) or guitar synth (Roland GR-20), which can then control a
3) keyboard synth/synth module (Korg Triton, Karma, Trinity, Yamaha Motif, or whatever the latest models are), or software synth, via connections made with a
4) midi cable

I think that's the general run down of it. I don't know anything about software synths, so if you're looking for more info on that, look into what some of the other responses were in the other thread, and see what you can find. My basic understanding of all of this has been confined to the hardware end of things.

If anyone feels that I left out any essential pieces of the basic midi stick/guitar explanation, please feel free to add to it!

[/quote]

Basically you need a:
1) special type of pickup system (Roland GK or Ghost Piezo with Hexpander), and a 13 pin cable that plugs into a
2) pitch to midi converter (Roland GI-20, Axon AX-50/100) or guitar synth (Roland GR-20), which can then control a
3) keyboard synth/synth module (Korg Triton, Karma, Trinity, Yamaha Motif, or whatever the latest models are), or software synth, via connections made with a
4) midi cable

I think that's the general run down of it. I don't know anything about software synths, so if you're looking for more info on that, look into what some of the other responses were in the other thread, and see what you can find. My basic understanding of all of this has been confined to the hardware end of things.

If anyone feels that I left out any essential pieces of the basic midi stick/guitar explanation, please feel free to add to it![/quote]


Thank you so much for dumbing it down for me!

So midi cable to midi converter. This goes to a keyboard. The keyboard goes to the amp? How do you change the effects? Via the keyboard?

I'd prefer not to use a software program since I'm so technology retarded.

Thanks again for the answer!

ComplexI,

Here's a little more detail now that you have the general outline.

1. The special pickup system on the Stick sends the signal from each individual string through a 13 pin cable to a "pitch to midi" converter. Each string's signal is seperate from all the others.

2. The "pitch to midi" converter then reads the pitch of the note for each string and converts them to "midi data". This midi data would then contains information about what notes are being played on each string, how loud each note is, how long each note is being played, etc.

3. The "pitch to midi" converter then sends the "midi data" it created to a keyboard that accepts "midi data".

4. The "midi data" then causes the notes on the keyboard to be played just as if someone were pressing the physical keys of the instrument. The sound that comes out of the keyboard depends on the sound you have set it to.

5. The Keyboard's output is sent to an amp, and the sound comes out of the speaker.

Example: If you play a really long middle "C" note on a stick with a midi pickup, here's what happens....

a - The vibrating string on the stick causes the special pickup to send a signal to the pitch to midi converter
b- The pitch to midi converter then converts that signal into midi data that means "really long middle C note"
c- The pitch to midi converter then sends that midi data to the keyboard via a midi cable
d- The keyboard reads the incoming midi data and says "Hey, this guy wants me to play a really long middle C note! I'll play that note now!". The keyboard then plays that note exactly as if someone had pressed it's middle C key on the keyboard.
e - You hear a "really long middle C" come out of the amp that's connected to the keyboard.

The important part of this is that they keyboard will play the middle C using whatever voice you have set it to. So, if you have the keyboard set to sound like a piano, then you hear middle C that sounds like a piano. If you have the keyboard set to sound like a trumpet, you'll hear middle C on a trumpet. If you have the keyboard set to sound like a choir of women singing "Ooooooo", you'll hear a choir of women sing a middle C "Oooooo". And so on.... Most modern keyboards have dozens or hundreds of sounds built in. You could use any of them in this way.

Hope I did not oversimplify this. It's a little odd to work with at first, but can be very interesting and fun. Keep in mind that where are more details to getting this type of setup to work exactly as you expect all the time, but this is the general gist of it all.

Peace,
Karma

Excellent description Karma.

And one my ask, why go through all this trouble to add midi to the Stick?

Midi offers a world of endless possibilities. There are certain limitations to the current available equipment that you have to adjust to in order to add midi to the Stick. You have to adjust your playing to make the midi happy and trigger properly. There are also issues with latency in lower note range and other "glitchy" things that occur. For example, if you add a sustain pedal to your midi set up, it will capture "other" sounds when you release a note or chord as your hands move position or to the next note. I might be a little sensitive to these issues as there are times where I use synth/midi exclusively but it's my hope that the tracking of the piezo's eliminate some or not all of these issues.

After looking at the 8 string project, the amount of custom work is way beyond my experience of adding pick ups etc. Is the idea to make a "box" on the back of the stick to house all the electronics?

Also, I'm assume the Stick would also require two 13 pin cables to be connected to the said "box"?

Yes. I'm planning to house the electronics and hardware in an external enclosure, ie box. If you're going to have midi on both the bass and melody sides of the Stick, you'll need 2 hexpander boards, 2 13 pin cables, and 2 pitch to midi converters.

It's important that whatever midi converter you use can work with piezo pickups. By nature they have a lot of high frequency energy (compared to a magnetic pickup) - you can hear this in acoustic guitars with piezo pickups. If your converter is not able to accept these it can result in a lot of false triggering. Fortunately most of the newer converters have a piezo mode.

I was looking at adapting the screw bridge system and the only way that I could see where it would be viable is if the screw was hollow and the element sat in the top...but you still run the risk of breaking the wire and I was unable to find an element small enough. I was thinking of setting it up so that the height adjust was done with a set screw - sort of like what is used on a Strat. I think that issue will be relatively easy to figure out. The element width though...on my stick string spacing is .300", so the elements mentioned would have to be shaved down...I would say to something like .290" to allow a little bit of gap between adjacent elements.

I was then going to mount the electronics in a square box about 1" thick between the stick and the belt hook. If you brought the edge of the box out far enough you could mount your controls on it and have them readily accessable.....

Really enjoying seeing someone taking the ball and running with this!

Dave