Hey, George, you gotta post a bunch of pics of that. Whether as-delivered or post-cleanup, static or in an unboxing video, I'm interested in seeing it both for the design aspects and how well it's held up over the decades.

Please.

Eventually, when you're comfortable with what sort of shape it's in to the point that you consider it to sound "right", an audio file (or video) that 'illustrates' the differences in sound between it and your somewhat newer Stick would be cool also. Especially if you somehow find flatwounds that fit well. Shoot, record it along with your Warr/Megatar/whatever, also, to highlight the tonal differences.

Well, I’m not exactly going to do all that – but tomorrow [Friday afternoon] # 285 is scheduled to arrive, then once delivered – I have to head into work [I wish I was making that up…]

Saturday I will unbox it, probably Saturday morning – but possibly Saturday evening… as during the day I have to go out and track an injured coyote via kayak [I do wildlife monitoring as a very serious hobby, in fact it’s a passion of mine - for many years now…. and I hope to someday be able to volunteer with the State Wildlife Biologists]

What I can say with absolute certainty is yes, I will take pictures and post a couple here once I get a chance to do so.

As for recording, that is pretty much impossible.
You see, I have an analog based tape studio, with no means of converting music to files so I am still a good twenty years behind the times there.

As for video, I really see no point in that – but still pictures, most certainly.

As for strings, I have to see if I still have any ancient sets of flatwound electric guitar strings, as I’m pretty sure I have a couple of electric bass sets kicking around.
I do know I have at least one cello set as well, which could be an option for C G D A… - but the pitch would be very different than intended… and before I forget, the 5ths portion is going to be tuned down to [lowest note] B, since this is a non-truss rod instrument….

As for doing comparisons with other instruments, no way… as I am on thin ice here as it is.
Besides all my other instruments are set up so vastly differently, it would be unfair to do so.

A Stick is a Stick, and nothing else could ever compare to the real thing, hence my obsession with the old Ironwood Sticks…….

I’m also not going to be sending this instrument their way [S.E.] for any kind of work, not to toot my own horn but I’ve been doing my own work on vintage instruments since the late 1980s, so I have a pretty good means to get the job done.

That being said, I am smart enough to know when I am in over my head, and would then either place the instrument into storage or have a trusted friend do the work for me.
I am also intelligent to know that with these older instruments – asking every string to note perfectly on every fret is more than just unfair, it is unreasonable…


Sadly, it seems that I have seem to have fallen from grace regarding S.E. so I’m going to refrain from further asking anyone there for advice, which is fine.


In a way, I sincerely deserve that – because I feel like a real idiot about this whole string’s thing which I went on about several posts back here, because it now turns out that the 1st set was in fact 100%correct !!

I am so used to the various string gauges which I have been using on my other instruments when tuning in 5ths – on 4, 5, and 6 string electric bass guitars – along with a 4 string acoustic bass that’s tuned in a combination of 5ths and 4ths…. that I was expecting 3, perhaps even 4… of the Stick strings to be “in bass string sized envelopes” as opposed to 8/10 of the strings being placed in the little guitar string sized envelopes.

So, I have a second set of Stick strings that I did not pay for – which now that I think of it – I did/do not deserve, nor feel good about having and I am very serious when I say that.

I suppose a.s.a.p. I’ll send that set back with a letter of sincere apology and hopefully this can be a beginning to start to patch things up.

I’m actually more concerned about THAT than receiving Stick # 285, although I’d be lying if I did not say I wasn’t concerned about that either….

PS: Sorry for this delayed response, I’ve had a very very long dreadful night at the plant………… and now I have a wonderful dog who will give me lots of hugs and licks, believe me when I say that nothing could possibly be better than this !!

Just to complicate matters a bit, Big GW, I still have a few flat would sets in my "Stick museum" (it's a drawer). The flat wound portion of the 10-string set measures as follows:

6th .093", 7th .066", 8th .034" and 9th .018"

They're very old but still new looking Super Sensitive cello strings - a big discovery for me in the mid '70s. They weren't bright but they weren't dead either. They were clear! No more pretending to have a Stick bass voice, these had focused pitch all the way up the board.

They're a bit thinner than our present light gauge sets for the same tuning. I wouldn't tune them down a half or whole step, but would leave them in ascending 5ths from lowest bass C.

If you want them, there'll be no charge, sent to you direct from the '70s.

This would be very generous of you, and most appreciated so of course my answer is yes.
I suppose now is a good time to ask - what do I do with the set of 10 String Classic's which arrived in the mail this past week completely unexpected ??
Is there a way I can at least pay for those ??
And I hope this is not pushing the boundries on Stick history, but is # 285 one of the narrow Sticks ??
I mean, I'll probably know that answer soon enough as it should be delivered to me in a few hours, but if it comes too late then I'll have to wait till tomorrow as I work second shift....
#285 is all wood, including the belt clip, pick-up, and also has I believe 4 or 5 extra frets on the melody side.
It has the wood nut/zero fret.
Going back further in time, how many Sticks were made which used the wooden bridge, similar to a classical guitar - a two piece wood bridge I believe ??
I bet they really have an amazing warm sound....
Regarding # 285, since it is a non-truss rod instrument, this is why I assumed it would be tuned down a whole tone [actually, I read that somewhere...]
George Waters is my true name so I'm pretty sure I am in the Stick data base, under Ironwood #1855
Everyone calls me Big George because I'm 6ft 7in and 275lbs which believe me is not a blessing but a curse....
Thank you for your reply !!
Cheers....

Thanks Big G, for introducing yourself personally. I thought you were merely aggrandizing the size of your reputation but it seems you're the real deal. Must say though, those early pao ferro Sticks were the most minimal that I ever made. If it's from the mid '70s, there'll definitely be a big disparity in size between man and machine (as seen live on stage). Grace thinks you're buying one from a later production, however, and with a different serial number.

We're sending you the flat wound set today. Also, please keep the round wound Classic set in case you want to try a more "wiry" overall sound with richer harmonic content.

One thing to consider, overall Stick tone is not much influenced by the structural material used in the neck beam. The relatively light gauge strings, lightly tapped, don't resonate with the through neck (and there is no body). Timber comes from the strings themselves and of course from the pickups. Warm or cool, on tapped electric strings you have that control through your sound system.

Thank you so much for your kind words, and I did get an email from Grace earlier tonight… I think she is seeing something else, because normally in the past I could click on a reverb link of some instrument I purchased recently, and still see everything about it – it just shows up as “not for sale – or Already Sold” or something like that… and this time, nothing shows up at all except for that strange Stick which Grace is seeing – which indeed does seem to have an unusual tuning.

I just discovered earlier today that my Ironwood #1855 most definitely does not have the right strings on it, it’s not even close [now that I know what I am looking for], so that’s getting a fresh set of new strings asap, and the strings which #1855 has will be re-purposed for some other project instruments I’ve got going [a mid 1960s Vox Phantom IV that I converted to a fretless instrument, and I have an Ibanez fretless bass I put super light strings on every now and then and run it through harmonizers, etc..]

Thanks for everything you have done for me, and I do appreciate everything – the extra sets of strings really mean a lot.

I’m a huge fan of your early creations, as I view it as important history in instrument design and once I unpack #285 sometime tomorrow I will take pictures and post them here [as one person above wants to see what #285 looks like] along with sending them to Grace so she can check them out and possibly determine a month and year when #285 was created.

*I know for a fact [*well, I'm going by the Stick History on the S.E. page and the pictures I've seen of # 285] this is a mid 70s [early 1975 is my best guess…] instrument, but I am not 100% sure if it is the narrow width neck.
It appears to be narrower based on photo comparisons, but I’ll know for sure tomorrow.

Also – I guess now’s a good time to really say that I am sorry about everything I mentioned earlier in this thread…. It was wrong and completely uncalled for.

I’m actually not only an experimental musician who maintains a 16 track 1” analog studio with all kinds of interesting things from the 1960s, 70,s and 80s… I also have a pretty substantial vintage [vintage to me is pre-1974…] collection of items pertaining to all things music…

Coming to the Stick is not something that happened over night, it in fact took me a good dozen years before I attempted to purchase an Ironwood from S.E. back in last September, which I backed out of because I suppose I felt I was not good enough… but deep down inside I knew it was what I wanted, not too mention that I’ve been playing 4, 5, and 6 string electric bass tuned in 5ths since 1992….

Along the way, a strange WARR came into my sights, and I grabbed it – apparently it was sitting in a music shop for months very sad and lonely which is all I needed to hear – but that’s a totally different animal, which I have set up without a mute at the nut end – because I’m doing different things with that instrument.
Two of Traktor’s creations found their way here too, one of them a modified Toneweaver which can be played positioned like a cello, it has an adjustable peg which picks up an ebony block which a luthier in Oregon made… that’s tuned in Major 3rds, and since I consider myself an experimental musician/composer, these kinds of instruments appeal to me because they allow me to try things I otherwise would not have. The other M.Megatar is a typical 12 string, set up kind of like a Grand Stick – which – guess what, pushed the buttons for me to finally buy the real deal.

Cambria… bless her !! will tell you that while I go back and forth, I am very passionate of wanting to get it right when it comes to buying a Stick.

Just this past March, I was all set to go with the Railboard that S.E. had for sale, only to find out it was sold – but this worked out to my advantage because Ironwood #1855 became available and I grabbed it immediately full purchase price [I always always pay full asking price if I feel it is completely reasonable and fair…] because I did not want someone else to beat me to it again, and that was being sold as a 1990s Stick… people don’t know what they have !!

Your information regarding Stick construction vs tone is of interest to me, and I am surprised to hear that tone is based more on what the Stick is plugged into as opposed to the actual Stick itself.
I was just the other day musing over what it would be like to have a Railboard with nylon strings [in classic 10 string tuning] using pizeo pickups in place of the block……………

Now, with Stick #285 I emailed Grace about as soon as I saw it, then like 3 hours later I jumped the gun and bought it - again full purchase price [which I’m sure people will use to accuse me of driving the market up, kind of like how the Japanese collectors did in the early 90s with vintage guitars…] because - again I did not want to miss out on it, especially since I’ve been absorbing everything in your books… pictures and words – I knew without a doubt that #285 was a very very special instrument with it’s 4 or 5 extra frets and wooden pick up and wooden belt clip.
I think the tuners are Schaller, and it has a wood nut with a zero fret, the frets look very small – not like later on. Also, it has a strap button just below the headstock for the shoulder strap, I’ve only seen that on one other instrument in the books I have bought from S.E.
And no truss rod....

So, in the end – I have gotten exactly what I have been searching for: 2 very nice older Sticks [although I consider #1855 my new Stick since it’s from the mid 80s…] and I’ve finally after all these years become a part of the Stick family, who are by far the greatest family to be a part of.

I wish I still had my Facebook pages going so you could understand who I am more, but I had to shut them down [I had 3…] which was really sad: 4000 wildlife and ecological pictures gone forever !! *but I had no choice, my images and my work with researching the effects of pollution on Wildlife, and the roles of Wildlife Conservation and Management and how they can play an important role to actually manage and protect species from threats of extinction, my work was being stolen and being used to further other people’s very unethical agendas.

This is a very serious passion of mine which takes up a lot of my free time, but again we are all a part of nature aren’t we ??
Someday I hope to be able to volunteer with the State Wildlife Biologists with their work, such as with the bobcat study which we have going on here.

So hence why I’m not sure when I am unboxing #285 tomorrow, it’s because Saturday’s main objective is not that [gasp!!] but continuing my tracking of an injured coyote [via kayak] who is close to 70 lbs [they get real big here in New England…] as I want to try and determine what has happened to this amazing animal… I could go on, but I actually have to get back to work [I wrote this during my lunch break at the plant…]

Thanks again for your kind words, they really mean a lot.

ps: this is the control room…….. with my faithful companion – I need to make a quick mention that when I adopted her out of a very bad situation 9 years ago this upcoming July, I shut my studio down for the sake of giving her a good quiet safe and sound home, and it’s the best deal I ever made : )
When people wonder what kind of home their instrument is going to, this is the picture they get.

Gusset, here's some pictures for you.
Grace wrote me back last night, after I posted this above [time zone differences !!] and while I'm a little sad that it's not as old as I thought, that's only because I had my Stick History incorrectly memorized, but it's still an older instrument, with a birthdate of November 26th, 1976... which was a good year indeed [for me anyway...]

So, here's part I.
Of interest - there's a number 22 written inside the hardshell case which definately appears to have been around the block more than once... if this Stick could talk !!

...and part II

Yes, I realize Stick # 1855 has way way way wrong strings on it, that will be taken care of later tonight or tomorrow.

So, two very very nice Ironwoods [??] here...

[*I add question marks only because for some strange reason, #285 seems lighter than # 1855, but that just could be me.

Enjoy !!

PS: Emmett, for now - I will keep the strings on 185 as is - since they appear to be a correct set.

However, I am keeping an eye out for a very early Ironwood which is pre Height adjustable individual bridge screws [pre-Sept '75...] so if one just happens to show up for sale, you know who to get a hold of, and that will get the historic flatwound strings which you have so graciously sent me.

Cheers Everybody !!

*One last picture if I may, since this is a thread based on alternative strings:

Big difference between 1855 and 285... 1855 has a 5 string electric bass set - actually - no, that's a 6 string set with only 5 strings being used... installed on the bass side, while 285 has the correct S.E. set installed, or what appears to be the correct set...

So, I can attest that #1855 the way it is set up - it does not really tune properly [note vs. tension..] and as for tapping notes, well.. that's obviously not going to work out right.

So, folks please do yourself a favor and go with the strings Emmett recommends for your stick, and if you have something else [as I do as well...] then I would say you are free to experiment as you please [which I also do as well]...

Signing off here in sunny East Derby, off to do some Wildlife Monitoring now.....

Respect,

Big G.

Nice find man, rock and roll. Beautiful instruments.