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tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
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Oceans
Artisan Contributor
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:54 pm Posts: 734
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
Ok, forgive me if this is new age mania ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif) . I saw some people wigging out about how tuning to 432 is more harmonically pleasant or in line with nature. It also made prettier sand cymatics so I got intrigued. Is there any thoughts on this? I tuned my synth to 432 and had it set to a major 9 arp sequence and I slept great. So whats the word? Or is this trivial. Thanks
_________________ "The society for the advancement of harmonic abstraction exists" www.youtube.com/oceansinspace
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:30 pm |
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Alain
Elite Contributor
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 am Posts: 2586 Location: Shawinigan, Quebec, Canada
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
Oceans wrote: Ok, forgive me if this is new age mania ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif) . I saw some people wigging out about how tuning to 432 is more harmonically pleasant or in line with nature. It also made prettier sand cymatics so I got intrigued. Is there any thoughts on this? I tuned my synth to 432 and had it set to a major 9 arp sequence and I slept great. So whats the word? Or is this trivial. Thanks If you experienced it and slept better, I guess there is something great in that tuning. You can find a lot of litterature on the web about this matter.
_________________ Grand Stick, Wenge, 12 strings, MR, SN 6667 http://soundcloud.com/Kataway http://www.youtube.com/user/Shawinijazz https://alainauclair.bandcamp.com/
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:56 pm |
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sagehalo
Artisan Contributor
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:38 pm Posts: 681 Location: Cary, NC
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
If you listen to Rafart's digital retuning of bagpipes, there is something to be said for being on key. The bagpipes are completely transformed into a different instrument. I cannot fathom that the vast majority of people have a sensitive enough auditory system to tell the difference between 432 and 440 though. I am sure there are some people that could be affected, but they are in the vast minority.
_________________ Daniel Marks #6133 Rosewood Grand, PASV4
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:13 pm |
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rwkeating
Artisan Contributor
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:27 pm Posts: 553
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
I vote for new age mania. Anything I've read about it as "proof" is no proof at all.
_________________ Russell Keating http://www.youtube.com/user/rqkeating
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:08 pm |
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Captain Strings
Master Contributor
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 2:45 pm Posts: 792 Location: Sylmar, California
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
Jeez - I dunno. I've heard all that too and I personally feel it's more important to be in tune with the rest of the world (440). If you were never gonna play with anyone else then suit yourself. I can see maybe some certain scale lengths and string gauge/tension combinations making a certain tuning standard feel slightly better under your fingers physically. Or maybe if you wanted to be true to some Baroque antiquity for certain historic pieces. But all the esoteric stuff about being in tune with the universe is kinda like saying "green is the healing color" or "Bb is the key of metaphysical distress...." People with perfect pitch - and I've only known one - a blind piano player named Jay Spell who when I asked him if the world sounded out of tune to him and if non 440 tuning conventions got on his nerves - said that even tho he could sing a C out of thin air or tell you the key of a song on the radio none of that really registered as much as the fact of an instrument or ensemble of instruments being in tune with itself. In other words relative pitch trumps all the esoteric stuff unless it's a necessary ethno/cultural microtonal or temperament thing - or you're accompanying Jimi Hendrix. Temperament differences are far more challenging and debatable if you ask me and there are dozens of those. On my main instrument pedal steel there are complex and unique temperament compromises according to what chord extensions are in your open tuning and what you have your string raising and lowering pedals do and how you adjust their stops in relation to other unaltered strings and all players have their own take on that issue cause all those compromises stack up real quick in certain combinations and things can get ugly real quick. On pedal steel I use a blend of Even Tempered and Just Tempered to "sweeten" my tuning (E13) and I tune my thirds a bit sharp and then take care of the rest by bar placement and a good ear. I call my system the Kevorkian Temperament. But it's all centered around 440. On my other instrument mandolin (straight 5ths) and Stick the 4ths and 5ths make ET the easy way to go and again 440 is convenient and good enough for me. Others may hear a big difference between 432,435,442.5,448 and 440 but I don't. My 2¢
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:10 pm |
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dbrosky
Site Donor
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:31 am Posts: 943 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
Captain- 2 cents is ALWAYS important like when the clerk says "$10.00" and you've only got $9.98 in your pocket! ain't getting the item! ![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif) good discussion. My feeling with all tuniings is that they should be standard so that all the musical information could be disseminated on a even playing field. When I watch a YouTube video to learn a Led Zep part I missed I want it in standard tuning and in 440 so I can play along. If there is a deviation, or an open tuning - have the courtesy to state it and explain it. A Crosby Stills Nash and Young, in a very excellent book I own transcribed to the T, expained the "Bruce Palmer" tuning. Nick Drake did not tour in his later years because he would have had to take 23 guitars with him to play his songs. Thank God they exist in CD form to preserve his genius and talent. When I was figuring out solos on records, sure the turntables had variances but they were all relative and the tunings remained the same. Recently, I was just four rows away from Eddie Van Halen thanks to a Live Nation rep, and he was on top of his game.An incredible artist who shared his talent and ideas right after he broke with a 12 page article with illustrations in Guitar Player. Today he doesn't have to tour (net worth 78 million) , but is there for the fans still today. Sure he tunes a 1/2 step down, but that is common knowledge since 1978., I say 440. and I'm sticking to it. it "resonates" with me! ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif) Junkfood for thought, Dave B "DBro"
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:57 pm |
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Oceans
Artisan Contributor
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:54 pm Posts: 734
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
Thanks guys, I'm still learning. I will try my synth experiment for sleep, and try tuning the stick to 432 and I should "supposedly" feel the difference in harmonic oneness. Peeps are saying that they changed to 440 in the 50's, hmmm.
_________________ "The society for the advancement of harmonic abstraction exists" www.youtube.com/oceansinspace
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Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:36 pm |
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ixlramp
Contributor
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:18 pm Posts: 171 Location: UK
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
The 432Hz thing is naive nonsense promoted by people with very little understanding of the maths and science of music. There are even ridiculous claims that A4 = 440Hz is harmful and a conspiracy traced back to the Nazis. A warning: '528Hz' and 'The ancient solfeggio frequencies' are similar naive nonsense. > tuning to 432 is more harmonically pleasant Harmony is all about relative pitch, changing A4 to 432Hz just shifts everything down so makes no difference to harmony. > in line with nature It isn't, their claims are nonsense. > It also made prettier sand cymatics If it did it's only because the slightly lower frequency may have caused a prettier pattern of resonance in the vibrating plate. This is just a coincidence, a plate of differing size or shape or mass may make the prettier patterns at A4 = 440Hz , or 445Hz, or anything. Anyone who claimed this was significant just didn't understand the science of cymatics. > I tuned my synth to 432 and had it set to a major 9 arp sequence and I slept great. It might have been a coincidence. Maybe you would have slept well at 440Hz too? To be clear, i can see you are sceptical and open minded about it, so i certainly don't mean this in a way that is critical of you If 432Hz seems more pleasant it's likely because it is a slight flattening of notes, which is known to sound 'relaxed', as opposed to the sharpening of notes, which tends to sound more 'energetic'. Also because we are so over-exposed to A4 = 440Hz that a change from this is refreshing. So i encourage the use of alternative pitch centres to help with 440Hz-fatigue. I find 440Hz very arbitrary, i like to take a very fundamental frequency from nature, transpose it by octaves into audible range, and tune to that, such as the Earth's day cycle. It's 'in tune with nature' but i don't make any claims for that, i just like the idea of doing so and not being arbitrary.
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:42 pm |
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Big George Waters
Resident Contributor
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 4:16 pm Posts: 471 Location: East Derby, CT
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
Oceans wrote: Ok, forgive me if this is new age mania ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif) . I saw some people wigging out about how tuning to 432 is more harmonically pleasant or in line with nature. It also made prettier sand cymatics so I got intrigued. Is there any thoughts on this? I tuned my synth to 432 and had it set to a major 9 arp sequence and I slept great. So whats the word? Or is this trivial. Thanks As soon as I read this, I was like "finally, somebody else gets it". My response to this is going to come out of a very different aspect, since I’m a product of the 1980s NYC downtown art/music scene, of which I performed live in a performance art group called Third Uncle during 1983/4, and lastly in 1989... To me, what matters most in the end is how it sounds to the ear. I personally have used all kinds of tunings, and sometimes even no tuning at all. I have a Toneweaver [please don’t ban me for owning a couple of Traktors creations…] that is tuned in Major 3rds, and to further complicate matters, is tuned the Buzz Felton way [did I spell that right ??] and for that, you need a real good strobe tuner [I use a nice Petersen…] and while – I personally am not that intelligent enough to know if something is tuned to correct pitch or not, my ear is good enough to tell me if something sounds correct or not, regardless of how an instrument may or may not be tuned. So, if it works… G-d Bless !! PS: My Sticks are all tuned in traditional pitches – but my other instruments – especially my Warr Phalanx – which purposely has no mute, the melody strings are in an open tuning which I could not even tell you what it is, while the bass side is 4ths [B E A D G etc…..] and my other creation by Traktor is also in an open tuning of sorts – both sides – even though the string lay out is that like a classic Grand Stick. Then there’s my Syme Guitar, which is tuned down to an A below B, it’s a 36 in scale fretless instrument, 5 strings… and it has gauges going from about a .160 to a .009 I believe…. and that’s set up with the heavy strings down the center, with a bass side [3] and a melody side [2] and boy does that open up interesting possibilities !! I want to say it’s sort of tuned in 5ths but I think that’s not entirely true. PPS: I just remembered while driving home from work [I cheated and wrote the majority of this comment earlier, then sent it to myself] that the tenant of my friend Mark had a old baby grand piano, from I believe no later than the 1800s. It was a fascinating instrument from a historical standpoint, the body shape if viewed from above was all 90 degree angles, no sexy curves like a typical baby grand [or grand for that matter !!] anyhow, Mark tells me it's available and it's for free if one could move it themselves. But, oh there was a catch: it was tuned to a different temperment [hope I said that right] and Mark stated that this made it impossible to use with other instruments. I did play it and loved the way it sounded - in fact, the keys were real ivory. I could not take it, and it died a terrible death as movers came and completely destroyed it, not knowing what it was... So sad, this was around 2003 or so, and I still remember it like it was yesterday.
_________________ Big GW East Derby CT
Ironwood #285, Classic [flatwounds] Ironwood #1855, Classic [roundwounds]
SB-8 Padauk #1788, Classic CGDA, Electric Bass EADG RB-8 Drk Blue w/Black Headstock # 6739, Crafty Tuning
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:56 pm |
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Boaz
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:08 pm Posts: 1571 Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: tuning stick or ns to 432 or 440?
i say if there is a standard-go for it
if it really make the difference for you -go for 432 but keep in mind that this will be a problem when playing with other people or with other melodic playback
_________________ Boaz Bar Levy
#7159, Grand Railboard,Plum, RMR tuning, MIDI melody. Manufactured Dec. 2018
#2001,10 strings Shedua, MR tuning Stickup, Fretrails Manufactured March 2002
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:29 am |
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