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 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning 
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Steve, you could however try a mirrored 4ths thing on your Railboard. It wouldn't have the crossover that a 12-string would have, but since you're doing more bass lines on the bass side, it could work and would keep the fatter strings in the middle to accommodate the scooped frets.

Kris


Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:08 am
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
I have read this thread with a lot of interest but not every word so if I am repeating something let me know. Here is what I think;

Paigan0 you are on to something that has been perplexing me since the beginning and
in the beginning I had Emmett set up my ten string as a big 'ten string bass'.

I switched it back after several months and did not look back for fifteen years :? ,,,

I learned to navigate 4th and fifths pretty good for a 'by ear' kinda guy but the bug
got me again mostly because I love guitar and have continued to play all that
time...

To cut to the chase, and if it helps not to chase your tail I will tell you what (in imho)
the secret is. On the NS there is something called "Guitar Intervals" ( also on the
SG). With that tuning put two capos on the second dot and --high to low--
you have EBGDAE or standard guitar tuning. The two bass strings can be tuned in various
ways specifically the 7th string to a low A and the 8th to an F#.

If you are a guitar player this is the magic tuning for the NS and is essentially
what the Heavy Metal guys use but with the 8 string guitar you have a thiner fretboard
and a longer scale.

The capos make the action even more amazing and as I said all the chords and scales
are there for the "normal" guitarist :|. It makes the NS even more versatile.

I have some new capos on order called "The Thalia Capo":

https://www.thaliacapos.com/

...And these capo's supposedly can be moved on the fly and will work. I don't
think it would work with two but they look cool and don't have a big arm on them
like the ones I have.

Doing it on a regular Stick? Thinking about it in two ways; there used to be a tuning
that was 6 and 4. I have not done this but it seems like it would work. I think though
if it was on a 12 string it could be 6 on the melody side in Guitar intervals with one
capo and leave the bass side in fifth's, standard length(?).

Cool post, thanks fro bringing this stuff up to the surface 8-).

jRj

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Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:35 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Kris wrote:
Steve, you could however try a mirrored 4ths thing on your Railboard. It wouldn't have the crossover that a 12-string would have, but since you're doing more bass lines on the bass side, it could work and would keep the fatter strings in the middle to accommodate the scooped frets.

Kris
Kris, I would see that as stage 3, with 1 being learning the bass 4ths on NS/Stick, 2 being converting my Rosewood to something like Valery in the video was rocking ("parallel fourths"), and then stage 3 would be to make the Railboard into mirrored 4ths (which I'm fine with the inverted and the fifths on the bass but I'm fumbling to a fourths solution for me personally.)

I considered mirrored 4ths earlier for the Railboard, but it took a pure 4ths machine like my NS to push me over to wanting to explore it a little deeper.

I'll take on JRJ's post separately, since it was longish. Thanks, Kris!

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Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s
Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR
Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths
http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1
https://www.youtube.com/user/paigan0


Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:12 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
JRJ wrote:
I have read this thread with a lot of interest but not every word so if I am repeating something let me know. Here is what I think;

Paigan0 you are on to something that has been perplexing me since the beginning and
in the beginning I had Emmett set up my ten string as a big 'ten string bass'.

I switched it back after several months and did not look back for fifteen years :? ,,,

I learned to navigate 4th and fifths pretty good for a 'by ear' kinda guy but the bug
got me again mostly because I love guitar and have continued to play all that
time...

To cut to the chase, and if it helps not to chase your tail I will tell you what (in imho)
the secret is. On the NS there is something called "Guitar Intervals" ( also on the
SG). With that tuning put two capos on the second dot and --high to low--
you have EBGDAE or standard guitar tuning. The two bass strings can be tuned in various
ways specifically the 7th string to a low A and the 8th to an F#.

If you are a guitar player this is the magic tuning for the NS and is essentially
what the Heavy Metal guys use but with the 8 string guitar you have a thiner fretboard
and a longer scale.

The capos make the action even more amazing and as I said all the chords and scales
are there for the "normal" guitarist :|. It makes the NS even more versatile.

I have some new capos on order called "The Thalia Capo":

https://www.thaliacapos.com/

...And these capo's supposedly can be moved on the fly and will work. I don't
think it would work with two but they look cool and don't have a big arm on them
like the ones I have.

Doing it on a regular Stick? Thinking about it in two ways; there used to be a tuning
that was 6 and 4. I have not done this but it seems like it would work. I think though
if it was on a 12 string it could be 6 on the melody side in Guitar intervals with one
capo and leave the bass side in fifth's, standard length(?).

Cool post, thanks fro bringing this stuff up to the surface 8-).

jRj

jRj, you've given us all lots to think about and some very valuable tips here. For a musician from a guitar background, this has got to be spot-on advice. I know Steve Balogh (MichNS) had his older NS tuned in guitar tunings.

However, for me, from a piano background, I actually HATE guitar tuning for the same reasons you and guitar players love it: you can do all the chords you know and love. Which I barely know. And I'm a casual 6-stringer and can make and rock out simple chords and riffs. But I really hate soloing and noodling in the mixed tunings of 4ths and 3rds.

I'm going to hopefully be able to play all the chords I want and need to play in a regular tuning, and probably skip open strings whenever possible, which is backwards from guitar logic that says "play them open strings whenever possible!" We'll see! I'm still a beginner, too, and I'm willing to do some explorings along the way! (Which is really the funnest part. But recordings are recordings. You can either make music or not. And I do want to make music!)

The Thalia Capo is something I got for my daughter's ukulele and I have friends who rave about them. Looks like a quality product.

Excellent advice and suggestions, jRj, and the spirit of this thread has been (hopefully) that there's no one solution for all and perhaps many solutions for some. And maybe no solution at all for a few (but only if you give up looking!)

Cheers!

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Steve Sink, Paigan Productions
Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s
Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR
Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths
http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1
https://www.youtube.com/user/paigan0


Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:39 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Just as Greg suggested, I ordered a set of the parallel 4ths in this tuning:

Db
Ab
Eb
Bb
F

F
C
G
D
A

Thanks for the help, Greg!

I have a spare set of MR medium gauge left, so if the parallel 4ths isn't my thing, I can change back with a new set. If I like, I get another set and one for the Railboard, as Kris suggested, in mirrored 4ths.

I'll be sure and share how it works for me! I'll also take the opportunity to finally take off the violin tape and stickers off the Rosewood, that marks the black keys on a piano, and which I barely notice anymore. They were good initially for finding notes as I would on a piano. And they come off without a mark.

Might need to see where I can get some of that Danish Petco Oil (Wetco/ Schmetco? Help a bro out! Google tells me it's Watco, and that I'm stupid. Shut up, Google!) Okay, Google also says it's at Home Depot and Walmart.

Cheers!

_________________
Steve Sink, Paigan Productions
Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s
Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR
Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths
http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1
https://www.youtube.com/user/paigan0


Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:34 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Can't wait to hear how these experiments go for you bro! Let us know...

Kris


Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:01 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
I am really interested to see and hear how you make out with this project also, it's super neat to see people messing with the instrument, doing their own thing. It's very inspiring to see and hear new creative ideas and how people go about achieving them...

Cool that you got the strings and some instruction, good luck man!

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Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:47 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
greg wrote:
You can't get 10 strings in 4ths all the way across. 9, yes, but not 10..

Why is that? Not sure if it's just physics of string length/pitch/tension or something else. Would love to understand this.


Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:00 am
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Claire wrote:
greg wrote:
You can't get 10 strings in 4ths all the way across. 9, yes, but not 10..

Why is that? Not sure if it's just physics of string length/pitch/tension or something else. Would love to understand this.
Hi Claire,

On a 36 or 34" scale instrument, you can't go higher than Eb without having breakage, going down by nin 4ths from that would put you at the F# Below piano's low A, which would mean a very thick, string that no amplifier could reproduce (23.12 Hz fundamental).

So it technically could be done, but it wouldn't gain you anything useful...

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:10 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
greg wrote:
Claire wrote:
greg wrote:
You can't get 10 strings in 4ths all the way across. 9, yes, but not 10..

Why is that? Not sure if it's just physics of string length/pitch/tension or something else. Would love to understand this.
Hi Claire,

On a 36 or 34" scale instrument, you can't go higher than Eb without having breakage, going down by nin 4ths from that would put you at the F# Below piano's low A, which would mean a very thick, string that no amplifier could reproduce (23.12 Hz fundamental).

So it technically could be done, but it wouldn't gain you anything useful...


Ah, physics! Thanks Greg, I appreciate the info.


Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:34 pm
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