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greg wrote:

Scott, That cover is really fun, but it's not doing much to shove that chip of your shoulder... let me give it a big loving push... there....

A couple of things to keep in mind...

1. Reading and sight-reading are two different things. You can be a good reader without necessarily being able to play what you are reading on the first go round.

2. As far as polyphonic instruments go, keyboards have a lot of advantages over frettboard instruments, harps, hammer dulcimers, etc.

First, they are uniform in the placement of notes, meaning that the width of the keys is constant as you go up and down the board. graduated fretboards feel very different at either end...

Second, they offer a ton of tactile feedback (black keys and white keys feel different), and visual feedback (less useful when reading, but still useful)

Randy is down on the tuning vis-a-vis reading, and I think we all agree that a mirrored 4ths tuning would make sight-reading easier, but every fret still feels the same...

I would be willing to bet that .01% of guitar players on the planet are what you might call "good readers" that's one in 10,000...

Jayesskerr wrote:

It has been most likely a huge mistake sharing my challenges with the Stick with y'all, but you know sometimes one learns a thing or two from these posts. And despite it being a very humbling challenge the Stick has been an amazing learning experience too. To each their own, right?

The_Afro_Circus wrote:

Greg, great point on the tactile and visual feedback of a keyboard. I find myself often using the distance between my two hands and the feel of the angle of my forearms as my refernce point on the Stick when I do any playing without looking. Wider leaps tend to get pretty difficult though, and so this is an imperfect method. If I might ask, what are your tricks for eyes-off playing?

Quote:

It think your body learns to compensate for the physical differences in fret spacing provided you position your instrument consistently...I often visualize the board with my eyes closed, and can "see" both hands in action.

greg wrote:

I'm actually teaching a class on reading strategies at Interlochen this year. Should be fun!

greg wrote:

The more I think about this the more I believe the reason reading on these instruments is harder than on keyboards is that on keyboards, left is low and right is high, and every note exists in only one place.

On a fretboard, where you play the next note depends on where and with what finger you are playing the current note. This means you have to constantly make decisions about how to play a part while you are reading it, which adds a whole dimension of complexity keyboardists don't have to contend with.

It will never be as easy to read on these instruments, no matter what tuning you have.

Author:	Jayesskerr [ Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
I feel heavily underestimated. lol No love for poor 'ole Scott? I do music for a living too, I have done it on and off since, like '95. I have also had lots of positive encounters with a lot of different high calibre players. Just saying that this isn't my first rodeo, but thanks for the help - it is appreciated, and I will take any I can get. It has been most likely a huge mistake sharing my challenges with the Stick with y'all, but you know sometimes one learns a thing or two from these posts. And despite it being a very humbling challenge the Stick has been an amazing learning experience too. To each their own, right? "Legit Stick" Really? That's a new term I hadn't heard before... From a Jazz guy no less, wow! What happened to open mind, no boundaries? Just giving you a hard time, Brett! Jeez guys, I just wanna learn to read the notes better... Not pushing it on anyone... Peace

Author:	greg [ Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
Scott, That cover is really fun, but it's not doing much to shove that chip of your shoulder... let me give it a big loving push... there.... A couple of things to keep in mind... 1. Reading and sight-reading are two different things. You can be a good reader without necessarily being able to play what you are reading on the first go round. 2. As far as polyphonic instruments go, keyboards have a lot of advantages over frettboard instruments, harps, hammer dulcimers, etc. First, they are uniform in the placement of notes, meaning that the width of the keys is constant as you go up and down the board. graduated fretboards feel very different at either end... Second, they offer a ton of tactile feedback (black keys and white keys feel different), and visual feedback (less useful when reading, but still useful) Randy is down on the tuning vis-a-vis reading, and I think we all agree that a mirrored 4ths tuning would make sight-reading easier, but every fret still feels the same... I would be willing to bet that .01% of guitar players on the planet are what you might call "good readers" that's one in 10,000...

Author:	Jayesskerr [ Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
greg wrote: Scott, That cover is really fun, but it's not doing much to shove that chip of your shoulder... let me give it a big loving push... there.... A couple of things to keep in mind... 1. Reading and sight-reading are two different things. You can be a good reader without necessarily being able to play what you are reading on the first go round. 2. As far as polyphonic instruments go, keyboards have a lot of advantages over frettboard instruments, harps, hammer dulcimers, etc. First, they are uniform in the placement of notes, meaning that the width of the keys is constant as you go up and down the board. graduated fretboards feel very different at either end... Second, they offer a ton of tactile feedback (black keys and white keys feel different), and visual feedback (less useful when reading, but still useful) Randy is down on the tuning vis-a-vis reading, and I think we all agree that a mirrored 4ths tuning would make sight-reading easier, but every fret still feels the same... I would be willing to bet that .01% of guitar players on the planet are what you might call "good readers" that's one in 10,000... All good, thanks for the kind words, Greg. Y'know, if you guys actually met me I bet you'd find I'm pretty easy going. No chip on my shoulder at all, just trying my best, you know? Excited about the instrument, and equipped with a crazy practice ethic... Reading/sight-reading-I'm still pursuing it. Aggressively.

Author:	The_Afro_Circus [ Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
Greg, great point on the tactile and visual feedback of a keyboard. I find myself often using the distance between my two hands and the feel of the angle of my forearms as my refernce point on the Stick when I do any playing without looking. Wider leaps tend to get pretty difficult though, and so this is an imperfect method. If I might ask, what are your tricks for eyes-off playing?

Author:	Gusset [ Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
Jayesskerr wrote: It has been most likely a huge mistake sharing my challenges with the Stick with y'all, but you know sometimes one learns a thing or two from these posts. And despite it being a very humbling challenge the Stick has been an amazing learning experience too. To each their own, right? Nope. Continue to share. For my benefit, if nothing else. Paraphrasing Steve A., this is a young instrument, its story is still being told, and what can be done with it, and how, is still being discovered. I put sight reading in there.

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Poll: Reading https://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11978	Page 4 of 6

Author:	heartstrings [ Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
When I was a guitarist, I took classical lessons for a few years, so naturally I was taught to sight read. When I switched to the Stick, I became more interested in composing my own music rather than executing pieces by other people. So reading kind of fell by the wayside. But it did come to my rescue a couple of times when I recorded "Concerto in G for two mandolins" by Vivaldi and "Pathetique Sonata" from Beethoven on the Stick. I could have easily learned them by ear, but it was fun dusting off my reading chops.

Author:	greg [ Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
The_Afro_Circus wrote: Greg, great point on the tactile and visual feedback of a keyboard. I find myself often using the distance between my two hands and the feel of the angle of my forearms as my refernce point on the Stick when I do any playing without looking. Wider leaps tend to get pretty difficult though, and so this is an imperfect method. If I might ask, what are your tricks for eyes-off playing? It think your body learns to compensate for the physical differences in fret spacing provided you position your instrument consistently. This proved my undoing when trying to play the Alto or SG12 with my eyes closed. I always missed the mark, playing major 3rds on a string instead of minor 3rds, for example. I often visualize the board with my eyes closed, and can "see" both hands in action. I haven't figured out how to do this while reading, however... Reading requires more situational awareness, and a willingness to "let go" of specific fingerings, because the composer probably didn't have us in mind when the music was written. I'm actually teaching a class on reading strategies at Interlochen this year. Should be fun!

Author:	greg [ Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
The more I think about this the more I believe the reason reading on these instruments is harder than on keyboards is that on keyboards, left is low and right is high, and every note exists in only one place. On a fretboard, where you play the next note depends on where and with what finger you are playing the current note. This means you have to constantly make decisions about how to play a part while you are reading it, which adds a whole dimension of complexity keyboardists don't have to contend with. It will never be as easy to read on these instruments, no matter what tuning you have. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't develop strategies!

Author:	Claire [ Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: Reading
greg wrote: I'm actually teaching a class on reading strategies at Interlochen this year. Should be fun! That's an excellent workshop topic! greg wrote: The more I think about this the more I believe the reason reading on these instruments is harder than on keyboards is that on keyboards, left is low and right is high, and every note exists in only one place. On a fretboard, where you play the next note depends on where and with what finger you are playing the current note. This means you have to constantly make decisions about how to play a part while you are reading it, which adds a whole dimension of complexity keyboardists don't have to contend with. It will never be as easy to read on these instruments, no matter what tuning you have. So far finding this to be true... You can generally also always see the keyboard, even when looking at the music your hands will be in your peripheral vision.

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