Stickist.com :: View topic - Cool hand/finger stretching routine

ArmyDoc wrote:

As a hand surgeon, let me weigh in.

The massage at the beginning is probably a good thing. The static stretches beginning at about 3 minutes or so can be good, or can be harmful depending on how hard you stretch.

A recent review showed that stretching actually decreases speed, strength and power by between 5 and 10%.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/777155

It is arguable as to how significant this decrease is, but it is notable that none of the studies reviewed showed an improvement.

Much better than stretching is light exercise/activity to warm up, before progressing to more strenuous activity. In other words, start off with lighter, less strenuous versions of what you want to do to loosen up.

ArmyDoc wrote:

Stretching is controversial, with many different schools of thought on how, how much and how long. Evidence tends to lag practice. Some smart guy thinks up a new technique. He gets good results, teaches others, and they start doing it. Only after there are two competing schools of thought do they do any randomized trials directly comparing one to the other. It takes years for practices to change.

A mentor of mine once told me, don't be among the first to adopt a new practice. Once the hype is over it may turn out not to be better after all. But don't be the last either. The old ways arent better just because they are old. Look at the evidence and use your brain. Thats why God gave it to you.

Often the differences between outcomes are small. In the study I sited they said the impact was small , but what I found significant was that it was always negative. It changed how I rehab my patients. I now use more active movement and less static stretching. And when I do use stretches I have them do them after warm up and I focus on more gentle / less forceful stretches.

ArmyDoc wrote:

It changed how I rehab my patients. I now use more active movement and less static stretching. And when I do use stretches I have them do them after warm up and I focus on more gentle / less forceful stretches.

Author:	Stickrad [ Fri May 27, 2016 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
PS. Thanks for hipping me to Shane Law, or should I say Shaun Lane. Ridiculously good chops!

Author:	Jayesskerr [ Fri May 27, 2016 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
Shawn was the best. Powers of Ten is my favourite!

Author:	bassmonk [ Mon May 30, 2016 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
Well I can't speak from a Stickist perspective as I'm a newbie but as someone who plays a lot of piano and a fair bit of percussion I find that some sort of stretching is helpful and I wish I'd known this before developing RSI (Learning to look after myself has been a valuable education!) As has been noted, the muscles that work the fingers are in the arm so I'd be wary about stretching the hand itself too much - tendons do not want stretched - but warming up and relaxing the muscles in the arm eases tension on the tendons going to the hand and fingers and I've found this to be effective both as protection for my body and as a way of getting flexible for playing. And yes I do shake out sometimes, but usually because I've got stuck in one position for too long and need to release tension. Keeping the arms and body moving during playing should actually avoid this and I find that playing something loose and fun is often the best warm-up. I would recommend gently massaging the forearm to relax those muscles before playing, especially if it's the morning, and also loosening up the upper body/shoulders. Being relaxed all over is the key I think! So.. true for piano, and I expect for the Stick too?.. Always encouraging to hear Greg's comments about the ergonomics of the instrument. I find guitar sore after a while, bending that left hand round the neck. I used to play a lot of 6-sting bass (still do occasionally) and it does not score highly for ergonomics!

Author:	pcgonzales [ Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
I tried something in regards to the stretching routine in the video from my first post. I stopped stretching for about week and 1/2 and found my hands felt tighter and I seemed to get tired quicker during practice. I started stretching again and it seems to have helped. I guess its just personal and probably different from person to person. I can't compare this to playing Stick but I can say that Megatar playing is less stressful than say playing an acoustic guitar etc.. I think the more upright posture does help whether Stick, Megatar or Warr what have you. What I really don't get, is all those guitar guys that play with their guitar down too their waists! That's got to kill your wrists if nothing else! I also found this link very interesting! http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-p ... guitarists

Author:	ArmyDoc [ Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
As a hand surgeon, let me weigh in. The massage at the beginning is probably a good thing. The static stretches beginning at about 3 minutes or so can be good, or can be harmful depending on how hard you stretch. A recent review showed that stretching actually decreases speed, strength and power by between 5 and 10%. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/777155 It is arguable as to how significant this decrease is, but it is notable that none of the studies reviewed showed an improvement. Much better than stretching is light exercise/activity to warm up, before progressing to more strenuous activity. In other words, start off with lighter, less strenuous versions of what you want to do to loosen up.

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Cool hand/finger stretching routine https://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11111	Page 2 of 3

Author:	pcgonzales [ Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
ArmyDoc wrote: As a hand surgeon, let me weigh in. The massage at the beginning is probably a good thing. The static stretches beginning at about 3 minutes or so can be good, or can be harmful depending on how hard you stretch. A recent review showed that stretching actually decreases speed, strength and power by between 5 and 10%. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/777155 It is arguable as to how significant this decrease is, but it is notable that none of the studies reviewed showed an improvement. Much better than stretching is light exercise/activity to warm up, before progressing to more strenuous activity. In other words, start off with lighter, less strenuous versions of what you want to do to loosen up. Man, you need to get the word out to all those classical guitar teachers out there if that's the case? First time I've heard so much negative words on stretching? Wonder why?

Author:	bachdois [ Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
I have a very close friend who happens to be the most renowned specialist for recovering musician's injuries here. The few exercises he recommended me when I started with the stick do have some stretching involved but these are very specific and to be used as a way to warm up, not specifically to stretch your tendons. There are good exercises that prevent injuries and bad exercises that cause such injuries. As in everything else in life: you gotta know what you're doing. I totally agree with ArmyDoc: warming up is the thing! Plus, he's a hand surgeon! Gotta trust that! Sent by Tapatalk

Author:	ArmyDoc [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
Stretching is controversial, with many different schools of thought on how, how much and how long. Evidence tends to lag practice. Some smart guy thinks up a new technique. He gets good results, teaches others, and they start doing it. Only after there are two competing schools of thought do they do any randomized trials directly comparing one to the other. It takes years for practices to change. A mentor of mine once told me, don't be among the first to adopt a new practice. Once the hype is over it may turn out not to be better after all. But don't be the last either. The old ways arent better just because they are old. Look at the evidence and use your brain. Thats why God gave it to you. Often the differences between outcomes are small. In the study I sited they said the impact was small , but what I found significant was that it was always negative. It changed how I rehab my patients. I now use more active movement and less static stretching. And when I do use stretches I have them do them after warm up and I focus on more gentle / less forceful stretches.

Author:	pcgonzales [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
ArmyDoc wrote: Stretching is controversial, with many different schools of thought on how, how much and how long. Evidence tends to lag practice. Some smart guy thinks up a new technique. He gets good results, teaches others, and they start doing it. Only after there are two competing schools of thought do they do any randomized trials directly comparing one to the other. It takes years for practices to change. A mentor of mine once told me, don't be among the first to adopt a new practice. Once the hype is over it may turn out not to be better after all. But don't be the last either. The old ways arent better just because they are old. Look at the evidence and use your brain. Thats why God gave it to you. Often the differences between outcomes are small. In the study I sited they said the impact was small , but what I found significant was that it was always negative. It changed how I rehab my patients. I now use more active movement and less static stretching. And when I do use stretches I have them do them after warm up and I focus on more gentle / less forceful stretches. I hear where you're going and of course you're the expert in these matters but didn't that study you cited have more to do with "stretching" in regards to athletic performance? As for using my Brain, I've been taught from day one to do certain fret to fret stretches etc.. from both my brother and Classical Guitar and Jazz teachers when I was at ASU. So this forum surprised me with all the negative comments/findings. Also wouldn't the entire practice of Yoga be considered dangerous or having negative impact? Just asking?

Author:	pcgonzales [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Cool hand/finger stretching routine
ArmyDoc wrote: It changed how I rehab my patients. I now use more active movement and less static stretching. And when I do use stretches I have them do them after warm up and I focus on more gentle / less forceful stretches. Can you please explain what you mean by "Active movement" I think I get what you mean by static stretching but not sure what an active movement would be that is in between stretching and normal activity ie.. playing guitar/Stick what have you?

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