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 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning 
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Jayesskerr wrote:

No offence intended fella... it's just that I paid for all of those notes so I intend to play them... most definitely past the 7th fret, and chords wherever the heck I want. Y'know, in the spirit of "unlimited creativity" and all... (It's why I bought a Stick...) So yeah, just answering for myself - other players may find that what you stated is perfectly suitable for what they want to achieve, and that's cool. I respect that, and the aspect of the reply that applies to hand collisions!

Cheers!
None taken.

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Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:11 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
greg wrote:
Jayesskerr wrote:

No offence intended fella... it's just that I paid for all of those notes so I intend to play them... most definitely past the 7th fret, and chords wherever the heck I want. Y'know, in the spirit of "unlimited creativity" and all... (It's why I bought a Stick...) So yeah, just answering for myself - other players may find that what you stated is perfectly suitable for what they want to achieve, and that's cool. I respect that, and the aspect of the reply that applies to hand collisions!

Cheers!
None taken.


Oh good!

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Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:16 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
greg wrote:
Jayesskerr wrote:



Your point is taken. I was just responding to the question about hand collisions. cheers!

And miss the possibillity of discovering the Higgs boson?

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Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:56 am
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
AnDroiD wrote:
greg wrote:
Jayesskerr wrote:
Your point is taken. I was just responding to the question about hand collisions. cheers!

And miss the possibillity of discovering the Higgs boson?


Isn't it already discovered? You guys and your particle physics mumbo-jumbo... lol

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Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:54 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Jayesskerr wrote:
AnDroiD wrote:
greg wrote:
Jayesskerr wrote:
Your point is taken. I was just responding to the question about hand collisions. cheers!

And miss the possibility of discovering the Higgs boson?


Isn't it already discovered? You guys and your particle physics mumbo-jumbo... lol

I already discovered The Higgs Boson a couple of years ago myself :ugeek:, and recorded it here:



I also wanted to see just how nested the quotes and quotes of quotes could get. :o

I haven't converted over the Railboard yet. I think I might wait a bit, just to keep one Stick still in the inverse fifths. I also haven't spent as much time on the Railboard, using the lighter sticks in 4ths to rock it out and write songs (plus the markings in tape on my Rosewood have been helpful when trying to write songs by theory, as much as ear). The Railboard is not as easy to navigate around with the unicolor frets.

****
So that's the Higgs Boson sorted...If anybody wants to fund me to figure out Dark Matter and Dark Energy, I could probably do so for just under a million--excuse me--one BILLION dollars! (Strokes his hairless cat with one hand while cackling "MwaHaHa!"). It will involve extensive research and at least 4 field trips to Amsterdam, although I will have to have at least a field lab in Denver, and a full hydroponics deep water culture (DWC) setup. We'll have some glow-in-the-dark nuggets within 4 months...

Oh, that's "Dark Matter" and not "DANK Matter"? Oh, that's an entirely different proposal I'm going to need to write, if I want DARPA funding...although we'll keep the Denver field lab just in case....

"Non-baryonic matter that does not interact with the EM spectrum....or has a high THC count without couchlock...either way....maybe a hybrid theory?"...[returns to secret lab under volcano to plot and scheme...]

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Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:43 am
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
Stickmen (Tony Levin) do a tune called "Supercollider" saw them perform it live@ Roxy&Dukes Dunellan NJ when I was cooking there. I don't think it had to do with hands getting in the way of each other but it was REALLY LOUD and it might have caused a few particles to split...

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Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:05 am
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
greg wrote:
On a 36 or 34" scale instrument, you can't go higher than Eb without having breakage, going down by nin 4ths from that would put you at the F# Below piano's low A, which would mean a very thick, string that no amplifier could reproduce (23.12 Hz fundamental).

So it technically could be done, but it wouldn't gain you anything useful...

Hi greg. A F#0 string a fourth below a 5 string bass B is fully functional and audible. 10 strings in fourths is practical on a 34" scale.

The first 9 string bass was made in 1995 by Conklin Guitars for Bill "Buddha" Dickens and was the first use of a low F#0 string i know of.
From around 2004 and for many years i was very interested in extended range basses and discussed these a lot on the ERB forums with owners of basses with up to 12 strings tuned in fourths.
I have experimented with a gauge .165 string tuned to roughly F#0.

Many of the largest string companies now sell F#0 strings. Warwick sell a mass produced bass set up in F#BEA. F#0 is borderline mainstream now.

There is still a huge amount of common misconceptions about sub-B strings. A lot of these arise from focussing on the fundamental frequency and noticing it is close to the lower limit of human hearing or below the reproduction range of amplification.

However, the low frequency of the fundamental is not a problem.
The higher harmonics are still audible, the lower you tune, increasingly they take over the job of carrying the tone and the fundamental becomes increasingly useless and unnecessary.
If you do a direct-input (no amplifier) frequency analysis of a typical low bass note like B0 or E1 you discover that the fundamental has a lower, often much lower, amplitude than the 2nd, 3rd, 4th (and maybe more) harmonics. The 2nd harmonic and up do the large majority of the work of carrying the tone.

For example, consider the open note of a bass low B string, which is fully functional, audible and sounds good.
The fundamental frequency is 31Hz, which is below the ability to reproduce for most amplification. All the tone is carried by the 2nd harmonic at 62Hz and higher harmonics.
A F#0 string is the same, the fundamental frequency at 23Hz is not reproduced by most amplification, but the 2nd harmonic at 46Hz is.

Here's a video (not by me) demonstrating a cheap 34" scale bass with F#0 and C#0 (17Hz, another fourth lower) strings.
At 2:21 is a direct recording (no amplification) that plays down to F#0, you will need a good sound system, preferably good headphones.
The F#0 note is stable, audible and a recognisable note. Obviously, the necessary gauge of .165+ creates a stiffness that results in quite a 'dark' tone.
The C#0 string is quite extreme, although it is also fully functional and audible, however the lowest notes start to become difficult to discern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SP--q-Qv-c&feature=youtu.be&t=141

Here's another video with F#0 and C#0 strings amplified, for a much better tone. Watch from 1:11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgnYzWY0rEY&feature=youtu.be&t=71

This post is also a reply to this thread http://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9427 where Emmett is quoted:

"Your graphite Grand Stick could be converted into a "Ten-String
Grand" by replacing the bridge and nut with hardware that I already
have, and two of the headstock holes for 6th and 12th tuners could be
filled with black epoxy.

I'll call it the "SB10": The limits of 4ths across the board (in a
single sequence) allow only nine strings before you run out of
tension at the high end and hearing range at the low end."

I can understand Emmett not being impressed by or interested in pitches much below Bb, many people are not, but it is not a case of hearing range.
I understand that the largest string SE make is a .128 for Bb? I can also understand SE not thinking a larger gauge is justified to produce, but i would like to see larger gauges available, maybe as custom made strings.

The advantage a tap guitar has is that it does not require as much tension as a bass guitar, so the string can be lower gauge, more flexible and therefore have better tone,
Tapped notes are tone-rich which will also help with very low notes.


Last edited by ixlramp on Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:16 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
So the alternative SB10 tuning would be (open strings on 34" or fret X on 36"), with the highest possible D4 on top:

D
A
E
B
Gb
Db
Ab
Eb
Bb
F


Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:35 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
I agree re: pitches below low B being perfectly audible, I tune my basses with a low A. I think amplification has come a long way in recent years and A and F# or similarly low are perfectly workable depending on your setup.

That said, I think the biggest issue with by inharmonicity of the thickest strings, due to the stiffness and thickness of the strings changing the strings to being less like a string and more like a follow tube. This gets progressively worse the higher up the fingerboard you go, and is exacerbated by tapping lightly as it introduces upper end harmonics AND inharmonics to create an increasingly out of tune sounding note.

Folks like Kalium - extended range string makers for the benefit of those not familiar - have commented that the thinner and more flexibility the core is, the more the issue can be alleviated (and that Prosteels) are very good in this regard, but it is a concern.

That said, that is a pitch range I plan to explore on my Stick. Like classic but down a minor third to low A.

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Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:58 pm
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Post Re: 10-String-Stick Straight-4ths Tuning
For those of you interested in unraveling the mystery of string gauges for the different tuning, feel free to share what you have, and use what I have compiled so far, in this thread:

https://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16710&p=139870#p139870

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