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Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
https://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3917		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  maxr [ Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
Beginners question here - do I understand other posts to say that some Stick pickups (e.g. the Stickup) have output impedance different to what most guitar amps and bass expect to see, which makes a preamp neccessary for optimal performance? If so, will an effects unit sort it out?

To be specific, my Stick has a Stickup. I have a Crate CA120D combo, which is designed for amplifying acoustic instruments. It has two identical channels, each with one 3.3M ohm high Z input (5mV sensitivity), and one 3K ohm low Z input (2mV sensitivity). Is there a mismatch between the Stickup and the amp inputs?

I also have a DiGitech BP80 effects unit with 1/4" unbalanced outputs - no input or output specs beyond that, but I assume the pedal output is what a guitar or bass amp expects to see. I mostly use a headphone amp at the moment, so don't have much practical experience of how all this works together. Will the effects pedal sort an impedance mismatch for me, or will it too demand the correct input impedance for optimal performance?

Thanks, Max
Author:  gpoorman [ Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
You're fine. Stick pickups are instrument level just like a guitar or bass. The only notable exception is that the output of an ACTV-2 is going to be hotter because of the preamp built into the pickup. But you'll run across this with any guitar or bass equipped with active pickups as well.
Author:  maxr [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
Thanks Glenn

Max
Author:  adson3492 [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
I suppose it depends on what it means for a song to be in your repertoire.

What does it mean to "know" a song? I don't like the word memorize.
I always feel like I have more to learn on any song, they are never really learned.

Sorry to be cryptic, I don't mean to be a wiseguy. I have never felt my rep to be larger than a tune or 2 on any instrument. Whatever I'm shedding at the time. So I guess 1
Author:  rodan07 [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
Adson,

Why don't we break that question "What does it mean to know a song" out to a different topic? It's a great question.

R
Author:  randy [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
gpoorman wrote:
You're fine. Stick pickups are instrument level just like a guitar or bass. The only notable exception is that the output of an ACTV-2 is going to be hotter because of the preamp built into the pickup. But you'll run across this with any guitar or bass equipped with active pickups as well.


Hey Glenn - not one to disagree with you, but I think the Stickup can greatly benefit from a preamp. It sounds like Max's amp has a high enough input impedance that he won't necessarily need a separate preamp - but the tone difference (and improvement) was very noticeable when I had a Stickup and then added the Rane SP-13 (after going direct into a guitar amp).

I guess it's not "required" - but it sure made a difference in sound quality.

Just my $0.02...

Randy
Author:  gpoorman [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
Just to be clear though ... a combo amp IS a preamp (along with a power amp and a speaker). So in your example, there was a difference in sound quality simply because you prefer the sound of the Rane over the sound of the preamp you already had (can't blame you there). Actually, in your case you ended up combining two preamps which will sound different than only using the Rane.

The long and short of this is that there is absolutely no technical reason to add a preamp when you're running a Stickup into a combo amp. Personally I'm not wild about combo amps for Stick ... especially guitar amps. That's why I run the StepAbout directly into a power amp.
Author:  carvingcode [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
I recently added buffers after the instrument cable, before my effects. Produced a noticeable improvement in tone quality.
Author:  Robstafarian [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
carvingcode wrote:
I recently added buffers after the instrument cable, before my effects. Produced a noticeable improvement in tone quality.

What is your effects chain after the buffer? It is entirely possible that you simply needed the buffer to drive the chain of effects, which would be irrelevant to Max's situation.

EDIT: Of course, Max's post is almost four years old. The necro had nothing to do with the original subject.

EDIT 2: On the original subject, you could run in front of the amp with fDeck's Series 3 HPF-Pre. That has a 10 megaohm input impedance, more than enough for the Stickup, and the high pass filter gives you five benefits:
  1. Your preamp will not be affected by extraneous frequencies, which will increase input headroom and make the tone stack more effective.
  2. Your power amp will not waste power on extraneous frequencies, which will create more power for a given volume knob position (not in excess of the design's rated power).
  3. Your speaker's response will not be affected by extraneous frequencies, which will make your speaker more accurate.
  4. Your speaker will not suffer undue thermal loading, which will increase the amount of power you can feed it (always keep in mind its power rating).
  5. If you use one per side, you can eliminate crosstalk between the melody and bass sides.
Author:  carvingcode [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need for a preamp/will effects units do it?
Rob - Agreed.
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