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 First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour 
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Post First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
I got the Chapman Stick (10-string, #5989, Rosewood) yesterday morning and had to go to a carnival with the kids, where I was violently ill from one of the rides. I didn't have much time or energy to investigate this new thing until later in the day. I've never even seen one in real life, much less heard one played, or played or touched one myself. I have seen about every darn Internet video I could find, though.

Eventually, after the kids went to bed, I spent about 3 hours with the thing, and here's my initial impressions, and no doubt, questions that you all can answer that I don't even know I'm asking yet. Some examples:

I've made several hilarious beginner mistakes so far.

I eventually got it all tuned up, and I used the website http://loophole.co/STICK/ to see where the notes were on the Stick. I tuned everything to the 3rd fret, first linear/dot, but was using the 12-string Stick example from the website instead of the 10-string Stick at first, and kept messing up the 5th strings (which I was tuning as if they were the 6th string). But I finally figured out that I was stupid and pulled up the 10-string version instead of the Grand Stick version and finished tuning.

Second nooby mistake: If you look at my pic of me with the Stick right after I've pulled it out of the shipping container, you'll see me with the "shoulder strap" around my neck. I thought it was a neck strap, but I'm swimming in the darn thing, and was about ready to drill some more holes in the leather, until Kevin C jokingly warned me not to choke in the noose of the "shoulder strap."

"Shoulder strap"? Not "neck strap"? Hilarious! That should make a difference.

Next, my strings are the originals, 2010, and have some rust or corrosion on one or two. They are not in bad condition from what I can tell from by guitar experience (I'm a keyboard player who knows how to make guitar chords, and I take my rig into the shop to be adjusted, although I can change my own strings and whatnot). Two new sets of strings from Stick Enterprises came in the mail the same day as the new Stick. I'll wait a bit before changing them out, though, since I don't want to add to my growing list of Nooby mistakes (not that mistakes are such a bad thing. All part of the learning process).

The seller has some books and Greg Howard videos that he's sending separately, as well as a stand and a stereo cord, as soon as he can dig them out of storage. But for now, I have the Stick and a case and a truss adjustor. So, I'm completely winging it for a bit.

Making a sound:
I'm digging the heck out of the bass strings, particularly the lowest one. I find it easy to make sounds with my left hand and tapping. I'm getting some buzzing here and there, and the action or intonation probably needs to be set up. I've got the truss rod adjustor, and read a bit on the forums and I know Don and Pat have just played with their truss adjustment. Some of the buzzing seems to be eliminated with some slighter better techniques and finger placement. Maybe new strings will improve that as well. But I'm pretty sure that the truss needs some loving.

I played for a couple of hours acoustically before I ever even plugged it in. I only have a mono guitar cable for the moment and connected through a Focusrite PC interface and then Guitar Rig, and then through my studio monitor speakers.

Questions: are you supposed to be using the X frets? They make sounds but sound a bit tinny compared to the "regular" frets. The diagram from loophole shows them as being played, but I'm not liking the way they sound.

I find it easier to use both hands to play notes that are separated by 3 or more frets, rather than stretching my hand. That kind of defeats the purpose of using two hands, and that's a bad habit that I should break before it starts. It takes me two hands to play the bass line or the melody line, rather than playing both lines at the same time.

For about 30 minutes, I kept wanting to pick with my free right hand. It took a bit of mental coaxing before I could stop trying to futz with the strings with my right hand while my left hand is tapping.

I'm wondering why the "proper" technique seems to be reaching across the fret board, meaning the bass is on the player's right side of the fretboard, and played with the left hand, and the melody side is on the left side played with the right hand. Why not put the bass on the left and the melody on the right side and not reach over the fret board? Do the hands get in the way? Wouldn't they even more if your hands are crossing to opposite sides of the fret board? Having said that, the bass at least seemed very natural and I have big hands, so not a real problem. Just curious, though.

I thought having the bass strings "backwards," with the lowest string on the top, would be difficult but I've had absolutely no problems with that at all. I got that right away. Maybe I'll have problems down the way, but none at all so far.

It seemed more natural to play the bass with just my left hand, and use my free right hand to play keyboards. That's probably something I'll do a lot of, but my Railboard will have the MIDI melody strings, so I need to get the right hand used to playing on the Stick, and not just let it play bass notes that my left hand can't reach.

I'm finding the melody strings much more difficult to get a "loud" sound. The bass strings seem to be much louder than the melody strings, even after playing with all the ACTV-2 knobs and trying different settings. Being a bit more precise with my fingering eventually made the melody notes sound better, but maybe there's some action problems going on with my setup.

Some of my issues with holding the Stick will no doubt be resolved as soon as I stop using the strap as a neck strap and instead a shoulder strap. I wonder how one plays it sitting down without a stand or one of the little arms that come out (I forgot what Stick is calling it but it's a couple of hundred bucks on the website). I put in on a box in front of me and played it sitting down, and then put in on a chair and played standing behind it. The shoulder strap used properly should help with that.

I kept wanting to hold the Stick horizontally as one would a traditional guitar. My improper use of the shoulder strap was probably adding to that. I got it vertical eventually and am getting used to it.

My left hand keyboard style uses a lot of octave chords with the fifth (or "power chords" in some settings), so that was actually the very first thing I tried to figure out on the bass side. Fairly easy to do on the bass side, but I've got to get that down one-handed.

I learned the patterns for a major scale on both sets of strings and was rocking out to "Joy to the World," whose melody is just a major scale descending (once you first learn that, you can't un-hear it!). That was very satisfying, I'll admit, again particulary the bass strings. I could play both sets of strings at the same time (just one note at a time for each hand).

In my own head, for the three hours I played with it, I definitely justified its existence as a bass guitar. My opinion of the melody side is not as high--but many of the reasons are probably related to the action and the setup. Particularly since I can play bass lines and still comp or jam with my right hand on the keyboard. Adding the MIDI melody when I get the Railboard should help with that as well.

I'm a bit frustrated with fourths up melody and fifths down for bass. It means I have to travel a great deal over the bass strings (I should go to a higher string instead of the higher fret, probably) and find myself using the other hand as a crutch. I'll get that, I'm sure. I know some of you tune in fourths down as well on the bass, but I'll wait a bit before I get fancy and start changing things around. I'll hopefully get used to it and I know it gives you more range for chords in the bass with it tuned to fifths.

Okay, that's initial impressions from someone who had never seen or touched one before. A few comical errors that are easily fixed.

I really need this thing set up professionally, or at least, more competently than I can figure out on my own. A few of you have already offered and I should really take you up on that offer. Related question: other than the kind-heartedness of Stickists, where would I take this thing as in a shop? Is Oz's in Ann Arbor my best and/or only option?

That's my 3-hour tour. I appreciate in advance any and all advice or comments you might have: "Ah, Steve, you're holding it upside down!" kind of thing, or "that's not a neck strap!"

Cheers!

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Last edited by paigan0 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:45 am
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
re: bass and using two hands, it's a common thing to play "two handed bass" on Stick. There are some advantages there.

When you're playing bass with only the left hand though, ya gotta move your hands. Stretching to reach a note is sometimes necessary (e.g. legato, or certain chord structures), but generally speaking you gotta move those hands, especially on the bass side with the fifths tuning. Something tells me you'll hear more about that on this forum...

Note that there are differences in approach to the instrument. Number of fingers, position based vs. not, playing repeated notes, how vertical to hold the instrument, etc. Steve, Bob, and Greg all have excellent teaching material, some online and some purchased, and you'll sometimes find differences in approach therein.

Great to hear you're enjoying your new Stick!

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Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:13 am
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
Gusset wrote:
When you're playing bass with only the left hand though, ya gotta move your hands. Stretching to reach a note is sometimes necessary (e.g. legato, or certain chord structures), but generally speaking you gotta move those hands, especially on the bass side with the fifths tuning. Something tells me you'll hear more about that on this forum...

Ah, right. I've gotta move those hands. I'm wondering how the heck normal fingers make that stretch, but my experience in "regular" guitar is that there are all kinds of un-ergonomic cramped hand positions that seem unnatural until you get used to it. I thought maybe it would get easier with practice, which it will, or just move your darn hands to a new position!

Oh, and thanks for the confirmation on two-handed Stick bass playing. Let me not use that as a crutch instead of moving my hands, though.

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Steve Sink, Laser Fractals
Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s
Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR
Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths
http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg


Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:34 am
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
Invest in lessons, w/ Greg Howard, Dave Brosky , Steve Adelson.... Any of those cats can set you on the right path. They are all fine teachers and know the instrument well.


Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:54 pm
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
Regarding your question about taking your Stick to a shop, unless you happen to find another Stick player working at one, I don't recommend doing that. The Stick has very few things in common with setup compared to guitar and bass, but I would not be surprised if someone tries helping you that should not.

Love the reference to Gilligan's Island - " three hour tour" :)

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Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:53 pm
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
Great to read your first account. It sure is bizarre, isn't it - having one in your hands after watching every video on the planet about it. There are surprises, both pleasant and rude. It is interesting to me that the set of things that you found easy versus disconcerting was similar but somewhat different from mine. I agree about the fifth separation on the bass strings being weird. It gives you beautiful chords, like the major inversion 1, 5, 10, but at the expense of having scales spread so far out. Yeah, yeah, I know - "free hands" :)

With you apparently living so close to a population of stick players, maybe they could help set it up properly. I would say put on the new strings right away, unless others here disagree. Old strings suck on any instrument (except so I've heard, bass)

I echo rclere's comment about lessons. I plan to start up with Greg's skype program soon. It feels like I am learning in the right direction, but I bet Greg will burst that bubble.

Glad you didn't hang yourself!

Don

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:51 am
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
DonAndPat wrote:
With you apparently living so close to a population of stick players, maybe they could help set it up properly. I would say put on the new strings right away, unless others here disagree. Old strings suck on any instrument (except so I've heard, bass).

I echo rclere's comment about lessons. I plan to start up with Greg's skype program soon. It feels like I am learning in the right direction, but I bet Greg will burst that bubble.

Glad you didn't hang yourself!

Don

Thanks, Don! I hear you on the old strings sucking--I need to get them changed out and this set up right.

I also hear you and others on the excellent advice to take lessons. Nothing makes you practice on those things that you don't want to practice on but you know you should like taking formal lessons that you paid good money for. My own piano style suffers from my distaste for scales, and being mostly self-taught, scales were neglected on the piano. Same for guitar. My own children 10 and 13 can blow me away playing scales on the piano, because they took lessons.

Might as well start out right.

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Steve Sink, Laser Fractals
Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s
Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR
Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths
http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg


Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 am
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
paigan0 wrote:
Oh, and thanks for the confirmation on two-handed Stick bass playing. Let me not use that as a crutch instead of moving my hands, though.

I'm not a fraction the accomplished player of many here, but I love two handed bass (makes up about half of the playing out that I do) so I'll share one more thing.

My introduction to the Stick, as well as a significant amount of the inspiration to plunk down the cash, was from seeing videos of this chap, Nick Beggs, playing with Iona from back in the 90s. I can't describe why, but this vid was the final nudge for me. It's been posted any number of times I think, but if you haven't yet seen it, it's fun. The first minute or so is studio chatter before the playing starts.

(Yeah, he's a "typer", which is a term used in a not-quite-derogatory fashion at times in these parts, in what I consider a bit of an injustice, but that's another topic. He's also one of the "off to the side when playing seated" folks. Great player who introduced a lot of us to the instrument.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmZxoxUNv4g[/youtube]

As a rabbit trail comment, I haven't watched this in a couple of years, and as I just watched it again, I now recognize a lot more of what he's doing without having to think about what I'm seeing. An octave here, a fifth there, chromatic approach here, pentatonic run there, etc. Simple and perhaps boring stuff to the folks that were musicians before picking up a Stick, but cool for this still-novice player who knew absolutely nothing about what sorts of things go into a bass line, or how they relate to a Stick's fretboard.

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:40 am
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
You know, that Nick Beggs video was really good! I saw it once before, but I didn't realize he was playing Stick at the time (I didn't know there was such as thing.) Probably becuase he's holding it sidewise-ish when seated. This might have actually been my first Stick sighting and I didn't know it. Added: Oh, and that's some awesome two-handed playing! Not that I needed permission, but still awesome!
Quote:
An octave here, a fifth there, chromatic approach here, pentatonic run there, etc. Simple and perhaps boring stuff to the folks that were musicians before picking up a Stick, but cool for this still-novice player who knew absolutely nothing about what sorts of things go into a bass line, or how they relate to a Stick's fretboard.

At the end of it all, there's really only 12 notes or so, in Western tunings anyway. The "simplest" things can be really, really expressive and cool. I tend to gravitate more to a power chord than a complex jazz chord change, but it's just more and more thirds stacked on each other, with lots of scales over the top, when you get down to it (he says, completely minimizing jazz, when actually it intimidates him. And makes him speak in third person.)

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Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s
Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR
Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths
http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg


Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:40 pm
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Post Re: First Impressions of the Chapman Stick -- a 3-hour tour
The Xfret is playable, but a bit harder to play because the fuzzy is in that space too. you'll notice that when your RB arrives, that fret will be much easier to play because the space between X and the fuzzy is larger, thereby making X feel like all the other frets.

cheers,
kev

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:02 pm
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