I just acquired an SG12. I figured I’d share my first impressions in case it helps anyone who is thinking of getting one or if any SG12 veterans want to chime in on these topics.

For some background, my main Stick is a 10-string with ACTV2, tuned baritone melody. The SG12 has a PASV4 and is tuned classic with a high bass 4th. I received it yesterday and played yesterday evening and some more tonight. Here are some observations in no particular order:

General positioning
It sits a bit differently against the body, it felt weird at first. I think it was just more at an angle than I’m used to, but it felt comfortable after playing it a bit. I think I need to punch another hole or two in the strap so I can get the instrument more vertical. My left hand feels a bit twisted the way it sits now, I’m used to playing the Stick more vertically.

PASV4 / mono mode
I haven’t really had too much time to explore the different possibilities with the pickup. I hadn’t realized that the mono switch on this pickup sends the output out the melody side, I’m used to it being on the bass side with my ACTV2. I found info on why it’s setup that way in this thread. It’s a bit of an issue for me because of how my Axe FX II works. The tuner and some other global functions only look at the left input. I don’t really want to switch the cable around just to tune or to switch between Sticks. For now, I’ll just tune the melody side of the SG12 with my clip-on tuner. It’s a bit of a bummer because the Axe FX tuner is really awesome and easy to tune with.

Intonation
I’m having some issues with intonation, likely due to my playing. With the different fret spacing, I’m not really hitting the fret where I should. I’m sure this will resolve as I get more time in playing this instrument.

Tuning
I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how easily I’ve adapted to this different tuning. I’m generally thinking of it as being a fifth up from what I’m used to, which is easy to visualize as just being shifted over one string all around. I think the high bass 4th is less easy to adapt to but I haven’t used it much yet. I’ll probably just have to think of it as a 5-string bass side with an extra option at the top.

Overall differences with the full-scale
I’ll definitely need to get used to the fret spacing. And since I’m used to a 10-string, the width of the fretboard has been causing me to hold my right thumb a bit differently when playing the top melody string. I need to work on it a bit so I don’t tense up my hand. The tighter string spacing hasn’t really been noticeable to me.

One thing I have noticed is that the top 3 melody strings above a certain fret don’t seem to sustain as much. They seem like they get damped by something as they ring. This is something that has seemed to come and go. I adjusted the neck a bit and that helped. I think maybe this instrument is more picky about having a straight neck? Or maybe the difference in the string scale and mass require a more precise touch? This is probably also related to my lack of familiarity with the instrument, I’ve mostly been able to get it to sustain normally.

Overall, I’m quite happy with it. The SG12 really has its own “voice”. I doubt it will replace the longer-scale Stick as my main instrument, but it’s nice to have this instrument as well.

Hi Clare, I am so glad it was you who got this instrument. There is a small club of people
who have the Sticks that have passed through Greg's lathe : you me and ?

I know someone who has Bob Culbertson's old 10 string , but I dither .

SG twelves are really great instruments and i completely understand why someone
might say "this is it" and forgo full scale instruments. On the other side there must be reasons
why Greg would want to let it go and 'perhaps' some of the reasoning is the adjustment
needed for different fret spacing...

My solution is to play the SG for weeks at a time
and really after a few days the fret spacing issue goes away. What is most intriguing though,
and I am not sure if it is the size or the higher register but obviously you need to adjust your compositions as well as your fingering, and ultimatly come up with new arangements .

Then back to the other instrument with a good cargo of new ideas...

`J`

I didn't know you had an SG12!

I've definitely been thinking of it more as a separate thing, I don't plan on relearning the same stuff I'm playing on my 10-string on the SG12. I'm hoping to maybe layer it with the other one. I think there's a video of Glenn Poorman doing that (maybe it's an Alto), where we starts with one, sets up a loop and continues with the other. It seems to offer a different palette to work with.

What can I say, I am an instrument enthusiast as well as a reverb abuser
I've got more up my sleeve than you might imagine, but my motto, (that I stole
from Peter Gabriel) is "gambling only pay's when your winning". So I keep my cards
close to my chest

If I am honest though, and I guess this comes down to a belief,
but I believe that lutherie or the art of musical instrument building in general has a
secret untaped information core or code that is unwittingly absorbed by the performer.
No pun intended. So there is the music that is played and what is conveyed through
the performance or recording. What is not present on the surface of the piece but is
implicit none the less is the craft, mathematics and historical refinement that went into building the instrument, what ever it is. That i guess is
given but I believe that a musical explorer or performer if they take this into consideration
can access this information and it can influence the music... Forgive my rant

So with the SG, such an amazing instrument, such a joy of bell like tones. Yes it can stand
alone for sure but I have found that if you try to play your familiar stuff it doesn't translate
perfectly so you make concessions but that is really great because it forces you to play
in different ways.

j

Very cool, Claire. We haven't met at a seminar yet and I hope that is rectified next year at Interlochen. I was hoping you'd try an SG some day! I also have an SG12 and it's my only Stick. I know you play some classical music on Stick and I believe that the SG is the ultimate Stick for that. I know many incredible players, like Bob Culbertson, play classical music on a grand Stick successfully. When I had a grand Stick in a 4ths/5ths tuning I found transposing pieces was a long and difficult process. I had to drop the key pretty far and make some note changes. Then learning the piece and bringing it up to performance tempo was arduous.

After some long discussions with folks like Rob Martino and mad_monk, I decided to try a mirrored 4ths tuning. From there I ordered an SG12 set up with mirrored 4ths. I was so captured by the SG and that tuning that I sold my grand and haven't looked back. Why? It's simply better for the music I want to play.

I want to play more than exclusively classical music, but that will be a major part of my focus. I enjoy it so much on Stick. Here are some of the reasons why. The higher range of the SG means I don't have to drop the tuning of pieces so much. I don't like piano music transposed down an octave, it's too dark. I'm learning some Bach right now and I do have to drop it a bit with my current tuning range, but usually only a fourth or a third. That's not so different that it changes the feel of the piece to me.

I also play some classical guitar pieces and I have found that I can play them as written on my SG with mirrored 4ths. And I don't have to contort my left hand or make huge leaps to grab some notes. The music lays very well under my fingers and I can play at much higher tempos more quickly. Not being a pro musician, I don't have the time to refine the technique used by Bob and so many.

I am considering getting another SG12 with a higher tuning. My current tuning is as low as an SG can be. The new one would be as high as possible on an SG, still mirrored 4ths. I believe with that tuning I will be able to play most piano pieces in the right key with no note changes. My current SG would become my jazz Stick and the new one would be my classical Stick.

There are a few of us in the Stick world who are not part of the 3-finger, 4ths/5ths camp. Since we are small in number we are a little quiet. A true sign that the Chapman Stick is a maturing and serious musical instrument is that it supports many different styles of playing and can be used for most musical genres.

I hope you enjoy the SG and I look forward to hearing you play it in the future.

-Eric

And here are my SG12 initial impressions!

My Tarara 10-String came to me DBR because I wanted to be mini-Tony on the funky bass Stick, but I soon realized that I really REALLY wanted to work on Free Hands technique and I just didn't like playing Greg's songs with this tuning.

So, I re-tuned to Deep Matched Reciprocal. I enjoyed trying to play Blue Ridge in the right key, but I really missed two-handed bass funkiness.

And, lo! An SG12 showed up Ebay with a rather non-obvious listing title (no "Chapman".) I found it. I bought it. I loved it. 10-String went back to DBR and SG12 went to MR and I nearly stopped playing the 10-String completely.

Things I love:

* Lots of strings == lots of options
* Closer frets and strings == less left hand stretching in 5ths (I still work to maximize hand movement, but hitting chords is SO much more comfortable than on the full-size Stick for me and my girlie hands.)
* The range - totally usable bass range (C above bass guitar E?) to way up high
* Just feels neat and tight.
* Lighter and easier to take on airplanes.
* I look just like Per when I play it!

Things I don't love:

* That I had to send it to Emmett to set it up. I just couldn't get the intonation right when I switched it from Dual Guitar to MR. Apparently the tuners need to be tightened too, so that may have contributed to my difficulty.
* In SG12 MR, my hands seem more likely to collide than they did when I was playing DMR on my 10-String. Playing Blue Ridge for instance, my hands are 1 fret apart at one point. Greg looks more comfortable in his video. MR seems to be the lowest tuning for SG12 - I think a SG12 DMR would have been nice.
* I do miss that bass E.
* I didn't like the light gauge strings. Emmett is putting mediums on for me.

The SG12 is awesome. I struggle with the full-scale Stick fret distance as I did with bass guitar - but I suck it up. There is no struggle with the SG12. It just fits me.

I still love DBR funkistick, but my Free Hands work will be on the SG12. I can't wait to get it back!

Hi Eric - It would be great to meet you in person at some point and to get to hear you play!

It makes sense that the mirrored 4ths would work better for piano music, and I agree that the SG12 is in a better range for it as well. So it sounds like it’s working great for what you’re trying to do. I’m not really looking to play piano music on Stick (I’m better off playing it on piano). I have been playing classical stuff but it’s mostly because I know the repertoire and it’s been a good way to get to know the Stick better and to work on technique. Also, for some reason, people really seem to like hearing classical music on Stick, so it’s something I definitely try keep in mind.

I like hearing what tunings people are using and why, there are just so many ways to play the Stick. And also considering Jonathan’s post, it’s pretty interesting how much difference a half-step tuning change can make. I’ve somehow managed to find piano pieces so far that work really well with the 5ths bass tuning. Regarding 3-finger technique, I didn’t set out to deliberately leave out my right pinky. It just happens that when using hand movement, I don’t feel I need to use it.

I’m going through some Bach pieces to start with on the SG12, just to get used to it. For now, I mostly need to stay focused on what I’m doing with my 10-string. Not sure if you’ve seen it, but there’s a short clip of me playing a Chopin waltz at the start of the “State of the Stick” video from last year’s FHA.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQiYcnDQrtE[/youtube]

Jonathan - I appreciate your insight as well. I’ve actually been having pitch/intonation issues with mine, and I haven’t changed the setup. I’m not sure what’s happening. I’ve got some lessons lined up with Greg anyway, so I’ll hopefully be able to get it figured out soon. It just sounds like I haven’t bothered to tune up! It could just be my playing…

I love the lower and middle range on my full-scale Stick way too much to really switch to SG12 as my main instrument. There’s just something nice about the feel of those long strings. And I don’t really feel like I’m struggling with the fret distances anymore. I’ve got girlie hands myself and I haven’t felt stretched on chords. I can only comfortably reach an octave on piano (9th with a stretch), so I feel like a giant considering the span I can do on Stick!

Sadly, I don’t think I’ll ever sound or look as cool as Per when he plays…

So I think my tuning issues have been due to a bad cable. After realizing my tuner was behaving strangely, I did some testing and there was some horrible noise coming out the melody side when plugging in with the SG12/PASV4. Tried another cable and it was fine. The noise was not audible with the way I usually plug in and it didn’t seem to happen with my 10-string/ACTV2.

It's probably no surprise it works much better when you can actually tune correctly…

I also found out today that after learning the Bach Minuet in G on the SG12 for two evenings, I can play it much better on my 10-string! It’s not a piece I had ever played on the 10-string before.

Great fun reading this post and learning that you experience about the same as I did when I first tried the SG-12 after one year with a 12-str Grand. The difficulty to tune was what struck me too initially, but I found out that it comes naturally with the shorter string length.; any change of string tension gives a bigger change in pitch under a shorter scale. This phenomenon is also a reason I love the SG-12 because - on the up side - it means that any moves your fingers make on strings result in a wider musical gesture by the audio output. Someone wrote last year in this forum that the SG-12 is like a fast sports car and I think that says it pretty well; you have to stay careful on the pedals to avoid immediate crashing and adapt your moves for the smaller but faster expression.

I also have this personal experience of the SG-12 speaking to me while I play it. Something my Grand never does even though my Grand sounds gorgeous when I record it. Different tools for different applications.

Thanks Per, that's very reassuring.