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Alain
Elite Contributor
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 am Posts: 2586 Location: Shawinigan, Quebec, Canada
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Stick and Piano
Should we consider the Stick in the same family of instruments than the piano, an instrument where we need to hit a note to get a sound? Curious to read you about that.
_________________ Grand Stick, Wenge, 12 strings, MR, SN 6667 http://soundcloud.com/Kataway http://www.youtube.com/user/Shawinijazz https://alainauclair.bandcamp.com/
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:31 pm |
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Captain Strings
Master Contributor
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 2:45 pm Posts: 792 Location: Sylmar, California
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Re: Stick and Piano
Percussion instrument - check
The sound comes from vibrating strings - check
you can play as many notes simultaneously as you have fingers - check
I'd say it has everything a piano has to offer plus more expressive nuances like finger vibrato and string bending because you are so much more in touch with the strings than with a piano. There are no "middle men" like sustain pedals and mechanical keyboard mechanisms. It's a lot more portable,easier to keep tuned,easier to conceptualize and execute music in any key because of the symmetry of the tuning.... It has a piano beat on so many levels.
Aren't these things obviously why we play it?
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:48 pm |
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Lee Vatip
Site Donor
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:06 am Posts: 3232
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Re: Stick and Piano
I often explain The Stick to the public thusly my fingers act like the hammers inside a piano, but with added expressive control SA
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:55 pm |
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greg
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm Posts: 7088 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Re: Stick and Piano
Kataway wrote: Should we consider the Stick in the same family of instruments than the piano, an instrument where we need to hit a note to get a sound? Curious to read you about that. There are similarities. To use a description that would help with the mechanics of things, it's like a piano, but without a sustain pedal. Each note is held as long as the finger is fretting it, and then when it is released the note stops. Captain Strings wrote: you can play as many notes simultaneously as you have fingers - check
I'd say it has everything a piano has to offer plus more expressive nuances like finger vibrato and string bending because you are so much more in touch with the strings than with a piano. There are no "middle men" like sustain pedals and mechanical keyboard mechanisms. It's a lot more portable,easier to keep tuned,easier to conceptualize and execute music in any key because of the symmetry of the tuning.... It has a piano beat on so many levels.
Aren't these things obviously why we play it? For starters, since we can fret all the strings with one finger on a single fret, one finger is capable of multiple notes, as long as they are 4ths and 5ths apart. What we can't do nearly as easily is play tight clusters of notes with a single hand, especially in the 5ths strings, but we gain a vast range within a single fret position compared to the keyboard. The other principle piano advantage I'd say is that it's easier to find a note on a keyboard than on any other instrument, but The Stick has the virtue of "key-universal" tactile and visual geometry for all chords and scales. Personally, I find the Stick more satisfying to play because of the added expressiveness. I also think it has a greater dynamic range, providing you have adequate amplification.
_________________ Happy tapping, greg Schedule an online Stick lesson
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:36 pm |
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dbrosky
Site Donor
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:31 am Posts: 943 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Stick and Piano
Alain, I think is is a great example and a superb notion.
I completely agree with Greg's analysis and love Steve's public sell points!
Greg, as always, very accurately said that "cluster notes can not be as easily made with one hand" the operative word "one"- cluster notes or close notes can very effectively made with BOTH HANDS - a diatonic in the right ie. a "g" with an "a" , and the left can add an "f#" or "b" since the strings on the bass side go into the same note ranges.
This technique can be used to do beautiful cascading waterfalls of notes reaching across with the Left hand to pick up notes on the melody side like when I play "Overkill" by Men at Work, or in the same melody hand for the opening notes in "Superstar" by Luther Vandross/Carpenters or in "Rebel, Rebel" by Bowie for a top pedal point.
As Emmett told me long ago, "if I wanted to make a double neck I would have!" All notes are all within reach. You will be amazed if you just try.
hope this helps, Dave Brosky Lessons by SKYPE and Google+ dbrosky1
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:13 pm |
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Alain
Elite Contributor
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 am Posts: 2586 Location: Shawinigan, Quebec, Canada
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Re: Stick and Piano
Thank you all for your comments.
Greg...I like to do these clusters with both hands of course. It's easier on piano but there is also something so easy on the stick and it's only with LH. Tonic, 10th (3rd octave higher) and 15th (7th octave higher)...because that is exactly what we play in the LH and not only normal 3rd and 7th...it's really an octave higher and if you try it on piano you need both hands to play it...while on the stick you still have your RH free to play something else.
Steve...really good...it's exactly the way I see it...our fingers are hammers.
Thanks Dave...alway great observations.
Captain Strings...right on.
_________________ Grand Stick, Wenge, 12 strings, MR, SN 6667 http://soundcloud.com/Kataway http://www.youtube.com/user/Shawinijazz https://alainauclair.bandcamp.com/
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:45 pm |
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AnDroiD
Elite Contributor
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:42 pm Posts: 2532 Location: Jersey
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Re: Stick and Piano
dbrosky wrote: As Emmett told me long ago, "if I wanted to make a double neck I would have!" thank you, Emmett, for having the vision. and yeah, i LIKE clusters...oh, and fingerSticking. (try THAT on a piano)
_________________ Peace, Marty "The present day composer refuses to die" -Edgard Varese
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:23 pm |
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greg
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm Posts: 7088 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Re: Stick and Piano
More ways to talk about The Stick from the perspective of the keyboardist.
The piano is one-dimensional in terms of its keys. As a keyboard player myself, I was initially struck most by the two-dimensional surface and the possibilities for new physical movements, as well as the ability to stay engaged with the strings after they are tapped.
I get the analogy of fingers as piano hammers, and sometimes describe the fingers that way, but mostly in the context of the strength and focus fingers get from curving (something I emphasize less these days as well, especially with the first finger). For the way I play, the hammer analogy has the potential to be confusing because it can emphasize movement at the MCP joint too much (metacarpophalangeal joint, the third joint from the tip of your finger). but I don't play the way most Stick players who come from guitar are playing, I use much more lateral movement to energize notes, even within a position.
dancing hands To me the fingers are more like legs, dancing the hands all around the board. They are extensions of the hand and arm, and don't work in isolation...
Watching pianists play is interesting. They tend to use a combination of MCP movement in position for rapid passages with lots of arm movement for more rhythmic phrases. Because of the mechanism, the energy from the movement is necessarily straight down into the key and is often supported by a lot of arm movement. In Stick playing, while the movement can be entirely MCP movement, but I prefer to play with diagonal attacks rather than straight down into the string. This means hand movement all the time, even small amounts, but not "up and down", but laterally, something we see pianist do when the are shifting positions or reaching to a note that's out of position.
For some diverse inspiration:
Check out Monk for lots of hand movement, even in positon [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC68NtEmAcc[/youtube]
and Rick Wakeman for less position movement but lots of hand movement for repeated notes (interesting...) [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKVYEShL2fs[/youtube]
_________________ Happy tapping, greg Schedule an online Stick lesson
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:34 am |
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Alain
Elite Contributor
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 am Posts: 2586 Location: Shawinigan, Quebec, Canada
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Re: Stick and Piano
Wow...two different worlds these 2 pianists...interesting to check them on your point of view Greg. Thanks
_________________ Grand Stick, Wenge, 12 strings, MR, SN 6667 http://soundcloud.com/Kataway http://www.youtube.com/user/Shawinijazz https://alainauclair.bandcamp.com/
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:47 am |
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Claire
Resident Contributor
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 3:56 pm Posts: 391 Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Stick and Piano
Depending on the classification method, piano and Stick (as well as guitar, harp, violin, etc) would generally be considered chordophones. They are all string instruments that can be struck, plucked, or bowed (with varying degrees of efficiency). Stick and piano are both designed to be actuated by striking the string. Comparing Stick and piano from a purely mechanical perspective, I'd say the fret is most equivalent to the hammer. When tapping the string, you move the string toward the fret, and the string striking the fret is what actually makes the sound. On piano, you move a key which throws a hammer to strike the string(s). Aside from the expressive control of fingers directly on strings, I think the Stick more easily accommodates other articulations. It's easy enough to strum, pluck or bow it instead of tapping. Doing that on a piano takes a bit more preparation.
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:11 pm |
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