Hey Stick community.

Life has caught up with me again and I'm busy bit I'm still hitting the stick hard. I have about 15 tunes, both covers (mostly pop tunes) and some originals as well and am trying to get to the point where they are all polished so I can got get a coffee house gig, anyway, my question to you guys is more of a philosophical one I think. My brother and I had a very heated discussion about the functions a soloist must use to panit a musical picture. It is important to note that my brother is a Jazz guitarist so I think his views while no less valid are colored. Anyway, we where listening to Monk, Bill Evans and Joe Pass, dissecting their approaches while playing solo. I made the argument that while the stick is not a piano, it is very similar in both its chordal and bass properties, but that when I arrange tunes I like to use my left hand to walk a basslines, because the bassline as a harmonic entity is both rhythmic and harmonic, and because of this and the fact that I still love basslines (being a bassist) I wouldn't want to use my lower range for anything else while soloing or playing melodies. My brother on the other hand disagreed and said that it can get boring to listen to a soloist that plays nothing but basslines under the head or improvisation all the time and that a mixture of both would spice things up. What do you guys think?

Tell him to listen to Larry Young's 'Unity'!!

Having said that though, I prefer to mix it up. I might play bass and left hand chords for a ballad for example. Or bass/LH chords on the A sections of a ballad/mid tempo tune then walk on the B sections and the solos.

I don't know if it keeps the audience from getting bored per se, but it definitely helps keep me interested.

Both concepts work in my opinion, walking bass lines and chords. Bass lines ... especially if they say something and aren't just learnt automatic lines are wonderful. But of course if you could do BOTH chords and walking bass it makes the music more complete and by switching from one method to the other possibly more interesting. The problem i see is playing two parts with one brain. SOMETHING has to be on auto pilot. Steve A. uses his compus bass method which works great and makes a lot of sense but the bass line doesn't always "say something" by itself, ... it's an automatic learnt pattern. (Sorry Steve ... I mean no disrespect) Playing real interesting bass lines is almost like soloing. So soloing on bass while soloing on melody has to be tricky. At this point I sure can't do it!!

But when you come right down to it your music is YOUR expression so you're the only person who can say whay method get's YOUR idea across.

I am totally unqualified to even comment on this topic but I thought the prevailing rule was "what sounds good is good" and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". So, while you be holdin' the Stick, you're the boss.

-Curtis

GREAT THREAD

I think a lot of valid points have been brought up here. here is my take.
I think that both chords and basslines work well for left hand accompaniment. I think that the skys the limit with the stick in this area. 88 persuader is right (I think) it is up to the artist to decide what functions each hand plays and in fact whether to seperate the hands or play them as one. I really think that the new batch of stickist that i have heard will really advance the jazz stick tradition. So I guess my suggestion is do what your inner artist tells you to do.
As for me I agree with 88 that basslines are really important and I will always strive to keep on growing as
a bassist as long as i'm walking and soloing. I really try to be creative in both musical parts. It's tough but I think it's worth the effort. I also play a lot of chordal arrpeggio things when playing ballads and throw in chordal stuff when playing Bop at times.


Brett
http://www.myspace.com/jazzstick

While I'm not very qualified to answer this question from the bass player's perspective, I have some opinions about this as a listener.

My inspiration for wanting to learn to be a soloist and improviser was Oscar Peterson. I think his ability to blend chords and walking basslines was tremendous. I have to agree that when it's just you, to only play walking basslines can get a little old to listen to. The reason for this is that you've only got one brain, so you're not going to be able to play as creative a line as a bassist would who didn't also have to solo, all the time. Pick your moments for "bassline brilliance," and focus on how what you're doing serves the "whole package."

What you do have that a bassist doesn't is the ability to get your hands working together in such a way that you can crate the "whole music" all by yourself, so the interaction between the melody or solo and the accompaniment that supports it can take on a completely "connected" quality that's new, and can be used as to contrast more independent approaches.

I've seen a few tappers who put so much energy into making that bassline work that there was just nothing communicated by their solos. They ended up with robotic scale recitations, in both hands.

I'm not saying that playing walking basslines is a bad idea at all, but you can play quarter note block chords too, or use all the wonderful chord tones you can reach in a relatively small fret span to move the line vertically as well as horizontally. You can also chose a different accompaniment technique to give each chorus a distinctive character, which I guess is what Darrell mentioned in his post.

And don't forget that even bass lines have phrasing in them, and that your sound is as much a part of what you are playing as the notes you chose, and when you play them.

Listen to Marc Johnson and Jimmy Garrison, two players whose music shows a great understanding of the role their sound plays in shaping what's happening around them.

Thanks for the topic.

Hmmm, this is very interesting. A metaphor could be drawn that "good" threads
are like songs or a kind of modal improvisation with words and ideas...

It's easy to say that all musicians who practice are soloists. Your alone doing this thing
for a long time but then you ask yourself "is this interesting to me"?
And another question if the answer is no;
am I doing this because i think it would be interesting to someone else?

The bigger question that I love and really applies to everything in life is; what is informing me
to do what i do? And then wow!; as a Stickist what is informing me to want to be a soloist? Is there some sort of plan at the center of it or is it more of a raw, visceral response?
Dare I say " a desire?
Do you just "know" or is it cheap, a turn over for a quick or imaginary
self gratification? or worse a career path idea? lol

Don't answer it's just my mind but giedosst brings up a question here that multiplies itself
and to answer his query without questions but my own personal feelings especially
since I see the thing from the it's all about me, my music, my ideas, my sound; me!
perspective like any soloist should admit once in a while...Well,
hey man it's got to be magic. If your going to do that; be a magic story teller with tones.
You make dreams unfurl. Your a conjurer. It's something that no theory can articulate
but when it happens you sure can feel it. I am not saying this to make it harder in fact
I think the weird stuff makes it a little easyer. It makes room for providence and grace.
^j^
. ~

Whether you play pre-planned bass lines, chords, arrangements, melodies, solos, use spectacular technique and juggle ideas like an acrobat, the most important presentation aspect is HOW you play these ideas.
Scales, compass (or not) bass, modes, extended chords etc. are all just information. Again, it's all about the GROOVE. Swing, funk, smooth, bluesy, modern, whatever, all those styles are made up of their unique rhythmic, harmonic and melodic vocabulary which is just data. It comes down to the vibe. Play beyond what you know, play what you feel. When you have the knowledge and technique tools at your fingertips and have a sensitivity for the music this combination will come out honest and connect with the listener.
Think about a great speaker like Martin Luther King. There was substance in his words and just as important a tremendous delivery. You had to pay attention and feel the integrity and substance.
In music, the same goes for BB King, John Coltrane, Django, Sonny Rollins and Wes Montgomery. More than what they play, it's how they present the notes, the phrases and their complete statements.

Steve A

I feel Greg is talking very nicely and properly about jazz.

I have very few things to say after that: one thing which puzzled me a lot when I started to listen to jazz is that some musicians are purely inimitable like Thelonious Monk for instance (many tried without success, I tried for instance), and some other are imitable like Keith Jarett for instance.

It is not disrespect to say that some are imitable and some others not.

I have got more and more the feeling that what's making the point in jazz is phrasing , and precisely the sense of phrasing corresponds intimately to an inner sense of expression with music or by music: something you could not express otherwise than with the help of music. And precisely with jazz. May it be frantic or still and wise, happy or nostalgic or .. what you can imagine.

You could add to "phrasing" disharmony as well, or accent and silences: those "items" are related to the sense of punctuation, like in litterature. Maintaining your musical narration under tension, until you achieved it ...

Sorry for my poor english

Hi guys,

As an NS/Stick player, I grappled with this solo thing for a while. Coming from a guitar and bass background, I was initially torn between walking basslines as the foundation for a song, and the dynamic flow that a bass soloist could provide. My influences for the solo bass side being players like Stanley Clark, Victor Wooten, and Jaco P, who create magnificent portraits with bass lines while not leaving you feeling like the bottom end of the song is lacking. On the guitar side, there are hundreds of influences, Al DiMeola, Russ Freeman, Norman Brown, Grant Geisman, George Benson, Stanley Jordan and B.B. King, just to name a few of my favorites, paint just as brilliant portraits on the high side.

Greg said:

“My inspiration for wanting to learn to be a soloist and improviser was Oscar Peterson. I think his ability to blend chords and walking basslines was tremendous. I have to agree that when it's just you, to only play walking basslines can get a little old to listen to. The reason for this is that you've only got one brain, so you're not going to be able to play as creative a line as a bassist would who didn't also have to solo, all the time. Pick your moments for "bassline brilliance," and focus on how what you're doing serves the "whole package."

I tend to lean towards this “whole package” idea. Our instruments allow us the versatility to do things a straight guitarist or a straight bassist can’t. It’s a matter of adapting our thinking towards the “Whole package” mentality that usually restrains us. “It did for me anyway.”

JRJ said:

“The bigger question that I love and really applies to everything in life is; what is informing me
to do what i do? And then wow!; as a Stickist what is informing me to want to be a soloist? Is there some sort of plan at the center of it or is it more of a raw, visceral response?
Dare I say " a desire?”

IMHO, the desire to convey a particular picture drives me to play whatever needs to be played in order to get that picture across. If a walking bassline is all that’s needed, so be it. Just, don’t lose sight of the picture. If you have no clue, neither will your audience.

Burnis