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 Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick? 
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Post Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
This question is purely theoretical, as I currently have no hope of ever affording a Stick. The Stick inspires me regardless of that aspect, however, so I'm expanding my understanding of music theory using the Stick as a playing scenario.

Disclaiming introductions aside, I'm comparing Stick tunings and models to determine what I would get if I had the opportunity to choose. The SG12 in Classic tuning appeals to me due its increased upper range (I'd love to try playing Carlos Santana's "Europa" on it), but would losing F, E, D, and C in the first octave (contrabass) make the SG12 too dissimilar to a standard Stick?

The SG12 seems like a great way for me to become a better "guitar" player within the limitations of my disability, but I keep remembering that I feel in love with the Stick's sound as a Stick rather than a guitar.

Lastly, there's the output aspect of this range difference. I only know of one speaker cabinet, at present, which can handle C1. That is not to say it's the only cabinet in the world capable of that, just that it's the only one in my list thus far. Various speakers (as in the component) I can buy can handle G1, though, so in theory SG12 Classic tuning leaves open the possibility of building my own cabinet (I'd like to make a vertically oriented closed back cabinet with a 15 inch bass speaker mounted low and a 12 inch guitar speaker mounted in the angled top).


In summary:
  • Is its extended low range critical to the sound of the Stick?
  • What signal chains do you use for your bass output?

Many thanks to all respondents.


Wed May 30, 2012 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
Hmm...I suppose you could say that the low range is critical to the sound of the Stick just like the low end of a piano is critical to the piano. However, IMHO the low range of the Stick is so identified with it is at least in part the result of Tony Levin making it so well-known in a largely bass context.

To me, the sound of the Stick is more that its strings, pickup, etc. It's not exactly a blank canvas, but it's darned close; it's an instrument that can sound like a LOT of things, depending on the imagination of the player. The best way I can put it, and I don't even know if it effectively says what I'm thinking, is that it's an instrument that transcends itself.

Playing with the Free Hands technique will give you that sound and that feel that's uniquely Stick. If you really want that bottom end, go for a lower tuning, or, as the pickups available for the SG12 are also stereo, so you can send your lower strings through an octave pedal (or other such pitch-shifting device).
Besides, the SG12 is not a "Stick" in the classic, 10-string bass-5ths/melody-4ths sense; it's a similar-yet-different instrument, and it should be considered on its own merits. It shouldn't be thought of as a "Stick Jr." (And I'm not saying that you are.)

Does that make sense?

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Thu May 31, 2012 4:41 am
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Post Re: Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
BergerStick wrote:
Hmm...I suppose you could say that the low range is critical to the sound of the Stick just like the low end of a piano is critical to the piano. However, IMHO the low range of the Stick is so identified with it is at least in part the result of Tony Levin making it so well-known in a largely bass context.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. I am contrasting conceptions of myself as a Stick player and myself as a "guitarist" who's actually using a Stickesque instrument.
BergerStick wrote:
To me, the sound of the Stick is more that its strings, pickup, etc. It's not exactly a blank canvas, but it's darned close; it's an instrument that can sound like a LOT of things, depending on the imagination of the player. The best way I can put it, and I don't even know if it effectively says what I'm thinking, is that it's an instrument that transcends itself.

You are just making me feel better about the Stick, since you keep confirming what I was thinking 8?}
BergerStick wrote:
Playing with the Free Hands technique will give you that sound and that feel that's uniquely Stick. If you really want that bottom end, go for a lower tuning, or, as the pickups available for the SG12 are also stereo, so you can send your lower strings through an octave pedal (or other such pitch-shifting device).

This is where things get interesting. There is no lower tuning for the SG12: G1 is the lowest note obtainable regardless of tuning. I don't know of any suboctave pitch shifters at the moment (only ones that deal in whole octaves, with Electro-Harmonix's POG2 as king of the hill).
BergerStick wrote:
Does that make sense?

It does, for many reasons.

Sleepy multiquoting achieved! Now for the REALLY BIG NEWS!

...

I can afford an SG12 after all (though I still don't know if I'd prefer a 12 String Grand)! I will be able to buy in September if an SG12 is on the Reserve list at that time. Since realizing that, however, I have learned that I have an opportunity to move out of my parents' house at long last (disability can delay so much). Guess which month I would be moving, I dare you.

I still love the Stick and Mr. Chapman, but I think moving out may be the bigger priority 8?}


Last edited by Robstafarian on Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu May 31, 2012 9:17 am
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Post Re: Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
I have both an SG-12 and a twelve stringed Grand. Both in bamboo and with the PASV-4. When comparing them I can only say that none of them can replace the other. They are so different and I'm very fond of both! To answer your question: I don't think the SG-12 "is a Stick". The SG-12 feels more like playing a guitar, in that it answers very rapidly to what you're playing. The Stick on the other hand feels like playing a full orchestra, but it can't compete with the up-your-face-guitar-shred feel and sound of the SG-12. In recordings and concerts I tend to find more use for the Grand though.

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Thu May 31, 2012 10:54 am
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Post Re: Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
Thanks for that comparison, Per. I have enjoyed your YouTube videos a lot lately. I am learning toward a 12 String Grand, but I would certainly rather have an SG-12 than no Stick at all.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I could afford a 12 String Grand if I got a Stickup in the first place and later bought a PASV-4. Can the PASV-4 be retrofitted in place of the Stickup? Would the pickup blocks be interchangeable thereafter?


Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 am
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Post Re: Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
If memory serves, it has been remarked on other threads that if the plan is to retrofit another pickup later, have the Stick/SG12 drilled for both pickups while it's still at Stick Enterprises. That way, at least in theory, you should be able to simply order the PASV-4 and install it yourself.

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Thu May 31, 2012 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Does the SG12 Lose the Stick-ness of the Stick?
Ah, it would appear such custom work isn't available on Reserve instruments. I will probably end up with a PASV-4 equipped Reserve SG-12 if my speculations prove to be correct.


Thu May 31, 2012 12:27 pm
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