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 Stick position and shoulder tightness 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 7:34 am
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Post Stick position and shoulder tightness
Hi everyone. I have a few newbie setup questions. I tried to set up my stick as in this link:
http://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=110&p=647
Once I'm set up like that I wouldn't even mind having the Stick higher for right hand access, although it is fine now. For my left hand, the sensation I feel when practicing the Bass Interval Exercise on The Stick Book page 2-5 is that I am fine from fret 2 to 12. When I reach up to fret 1 I have to move at the shoulder so the elbow comes forward. There seems to be tension at the front of my shoulder as I play at fret 1 and since I practiced that riff over and over, a lot of tension was felt in the shoulder after my practice sessions. It feels like I did hundreds of pushups except that nothing is affected but the front of my shoulder. I did not have any other problems on the other earlier drills.

Incidentally I tested reducing the Stick's height and felt no tension even playing at the zero fret. I did not like the lowered right hand position at all and for the right hand would prefer it to be as high as the belt hook allows. Playing the left hand at frets 8+ or chords felt less easy so I switched to bring the instrument back up higher. After I spent a couple of days playing the bass strings up higher (why did I repeat a movement that obviously caused repetitive stress?) now I can feel the shoulder tension whether I play with the left hand or do only right hand practice, as I have after a few days off from the left now.

I made another playing decision that wasn't the greatest. I noticed while practicing right hand chords on strings 3, 4 and 5 that my right hand accidentally bumped bass string 6 so I practiced avoiding that and my right arm naturally moved forward while practicing those chords. I'm getting the same sense of shoulder tension there too.

Other than tips for moving correctly and positioning the instrument correctly, are there tips for relaxing the shoulders since I feel it when not playing at all? It would be nice to drop the tension to pre-Stick levels and get back to proper practice.

A pic of my playing position follows for critique, and I had my left hand up to the 1st fret as an example of my arm position. Thank you for assistance.


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Mon May 22, 2017 10:51 am
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
There are some professional OTs on the site, so I won't even pretend to be able to tell you the definitive answer.

I can say that when I was having trouble in my shoulder and cervical vertebrae, there were two things that really helped:

1) Seated exercises with dumbbells with upper arms parallel to the floor, rotating the dumbbells in front of and beside the body isometrically.

2) Seated exercises with dumbbells with upper arms parallel to the floor, arms beside the torso, raising to the ceiling and back to the original position.

Back to the initial problem though, not everybody's gross anatomy works the same. Did you consider increasing the angle of the Stick (sliding it further from center at your belt) to change your shoulder engagement? If you look at enough pictures of Stickists, you can see a pretty wide range of positions.

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Mon May 22, 2017 11:19 am
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
What I did was study videos of all the best players, look at where the first fret lined up with their ear, chin or whatever, averaged it all out and found a middle ground as a starting place. Then I played like that for a few weeks, set things a little higher then a little lower,etc until I found the best compromise for my particular body geometry. Did the same thing with degrees of vertical angles. And tunings. Tried 10 string classic, then baritone melody, 12 string 6+6 classic, 12 string MR and finally settled on 12 string MR w/high bass 4th. To my mind that's kind what you have to go through. That way you absolutely know what's best for YOU. Have you tried playing seated with a lap bar? That opens things up quite a bit as far as access to the whole fingerboard because you're not strapped in and can move and angle your torso so as to change your arms' reach as needed without moving the instrument.


Mon May 22, 2017 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
Captain Strings wrote:
Have you tried playing seated with a lap bar? That opens things up quite a bit as far as access to the whole fingerboard because you're not strapped in and can move and angle your torso so as to change your arms' reach as needed without moving the instrument.

Playing sitting down made all the difference to me for usability and playability. If I had to only play Sticks standing up, I'd play a heck of a lot less, I'm pretty sure. I stand up and play just to not get locked into only sitting down--BUT.... I'm pretty much locked into only playing sitting down, and I'm really okay with that. I'd definitely give that a try.

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Mon May 22, 2017 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
This video is very helpful for left hand positioning and movement:

If you’re just starting out, setup a lesson and get some feedback on your posture, positioning, and movement. It will be money well spent. Also, it will take some time for your body to adjust to the instrument. Don’t do repeated motions for a long time, It would be better to do short rounds of repeated actions, like those bass intervals. Go through them slowly so that you can focus on them and notice if you start tensing up.

Personally, I’m better off playing standing up. I’m better able to keep my posture and overall position in check. I slouch when I sit.

The Stick is the most ergonomic instrument I’ve played, you probably just need to slow down a bit and give it some time.


Mon May 22, 2017 5:00 pm
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
Playing an instrument is not a static thing, and you´re not a robot.
Your body is different if you play relaxed in the morning, or after a long working day. (e.g your muscels are tired and the spinal column is shorter in the evening)
So there is no fixed Position, if you play standing position.

On the picture i see, that you use the belt of your trousers.

Andre Mueller gave me the hint, to use a belt which is not fixed in your trousers (or a second belt).
:!: So its possible to change the hight and the angle of the stick easily! :!:
So your muscles can relax and aren´t used always in the same position.

also changing between the stick is easier (e.g. 34" to 36" scale) - but thats a different story :lol:

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Tue May 23, 2017 12:32 am
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
I play while laying flat on my back. It's very comfortable... 8-)

I made a stick holder for playing while sitting or standing.
http://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12070

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Tue May 23, 2017 5:40 am
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
I've been reading the posts and trying a few different Stick positions to go with them, going a bit more diagonal and with the belt clip perhaps closer to the right side. Sometimes it looks like Emmett and others play at 45 degrees but it's interesting with my shoulder's tightness that I can truly feel how each move of the arm tightens up more or not. So there was a lot more right hand practice than left, but this is a good base for experimentation. It's good that I can feel where to back off to keep my right shoulder from having any problem so far, but the left is still somewhat tense whether playing or not.

Also the belt is not connected to my pants' belt loops, it is just over them. Adjusting that belt for testing will be faster than the the belt hook screws. Thanks.

I haven't attempted a lap bar. Is there a simple item "everyone" has in their homes that could sub for a lap bar to try that out? It's also a test to find out if I'm "everyone" I guess :)

WerkSpace, that stand is a thing of beauty. Perhaps I will try that at some point.

Need to take time out to view the full video posted and probably set up a lesson at some point.

I'll definitely be returning to this thread and reviewing before each of my next practice sessions. Doing some of Sagehalo's physical therapy just to see how that works out - whether or not it's specific to me, it does not tighten the area so that can't be bad. Thank you all for answering.


Tue May 23, 2017 7:49 am
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
Based on the picture, I am surprised no one mention your elbow. It shouldn't be against your body, but held up away from it. See the picture of Greg posted above. That's a start.

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Tue May 23, 2017 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Stick position and shoulder tightness
Quote:
I haven't attempted a lap bar. Is there a simple item "everyone" has in their homes that could sub for a lap bar to try that out? It's also a test to find out if I'm "everyone" I guess.


You could try a drumstick if it's on the thin side. I'm sure you have a few drummers in your rolodex. Or something stout enough to support the instrument yet thin enough to fit in the belt slot of the belt hook. A piece of dowel out of the garage? Ideally around 18" long.

If that's the road you'd like to try, you'll need one of these:

https://stick-enterprises-store.myshopi ... le-lap-bar

It's fully adjustable in angle and height and folds out of the way when you want to stand up and play.


Wed May 24, 2017 4:19 pm
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