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 melody (or bass) in 3ds? 
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
It is uncool to challenge anyone's credibility online, just as a point of etiquette.
Which is what I am on about.

I bought my first Stick in August of 1983. Although it has not been a career focus until just these last eight years, I did put in thousands of hours and figured out how to play a lot of keyboard music exactly as written.
More recently, I have gone back to school to study theory and composition on the Stick, using my ability to read on the instrument. The goal is to find a place for this technique in academia and to that end I have spent hundreds of hours in classrooms, many hundreds more at home studying, and learned to play a bit of piano and classical guitar (these things are required by the school.)
In my third year at Sonoma State University, the instrument is accepted as a legitimate first instrument, if only unofficially, since there is no one to teach it at my level. But it is a start.
Professors actually dig it.
So when I try to report my sucess, here, hoping to open up the field of players to include people more interested in a traditional music education, it is disheartening to have someone else claim that they can do it all. You and Greg can not do everything that can be done on the instrument. I have done an enormous amount of work that neither of you have done, and it is galling to be shouted down on just about every post for trying to find my own little community.
Fortunately I belong to a community of excellent musicians at school, and do not need validation from you lot.

Mad Monk.

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:59 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
mad_monk wrote:
It is uncool to challenge anyone's credibility online, just as a point of etiquette.
Which is what I am on about.

I bought my first Stick in August of 1983. Although it has not been a career focus until just these last eight years, I did put in thousands of hours and figured out how to play a lot of keyboard music exactly as written.
More recently, I have gone back to school to study theory and composition on the Stick, using my ability to read on the instrument. The goal is to find a place for this technique in academia and to that end I have spent hundreds of hours in classrooms, many hundreds more at home studying, and learned to play a bit of piano and classical guitar (these things are required by the school.)
In my third year at Sonoma State University, the instrument is accepted as a legitimate first instrument, if only unofficially, since there is no one to teach it at my level. But it is a start.
Professors actually dig it.
So when I try to report my sucess, here, hoping to open up the field of players to include people more interested in a traditional music education, it is disheartening to have someone else claim that they can do it all. You and Greg can not do everything that can be done on the instrument. I have done an enormous amount of work that neither of you have done, and it is galling to be shouted down on just about every post for trying to find my own little community.
Fortunately I belong to a community of excellent musicians at school, and do not need validation from you lot.

Mad Monk.
Randy, you seem to think I am against you. Quite the contrary, I am for you. Anything that expands the instrument's horizons is good for me, too. If I had the time to go back and learn the method with mirrored 4ths, I'd do it, but then I'd lose what I already have learned, and there is serious musical magic in the inverted 5ths bass tuning. I tried to play both, very seriously in fact, but I could not juggle both tunings, it was simply too confusing for me. I am working very seriously on several Bach pieces using the Baritone Melody tuning. It's a challenge, but I love the music, and without the need to play closed voise chords, it's completely doable.

I'm not shouting you down. I' cheering you on. Not everyone shares your goal, however, so perhaps it would be best to stop slamming others for not pursuing it...

Whatever shouting against you that you hear is in your own head.

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:09 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Similarly this Stick player did not put you down. I stated something about the tuning and said I never encountered a problem with the possible voicings therefore any need to change it. I gave an illustration of how I easily grasp a closed voice chord. I merely challenged the benefit of thirds tuning. Then you announced that you played etudes and I probably didn't. And what of it? Is it possible that someone else who practices 3-5 hours a day but plays different music is not as valid? It's great that you're going to school and I never degraded your music or goals. What I questioned was how you proposed that your studies were the real deal. Point in fact I studied academically 45 years ago and have been putting it to use by performing with folks like Larry ,Coryell, Les Paul, Stanley Jordan etc. Am I less credible for writing a method book, for being included in history books with the likes of Wes Montgomery, Django and Matheny. That's my partialy resume. I wish you success in your musical journey. Respect for mine should be mutual


Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:54 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
My point was that you can't claim one way of learning is "easier" if you haven't also done it the way millions have learned to play, i.e. via etudes. Ease of study is one of the advantages of doing it that way.
I have also done it with chord diagrams in fifths. It was not easier for me.

By the way, I play fourths now.

Mad Monk.

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:24 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Awww guys...

Where is the love? C'mon guys, surely there is a better way to expend energy. We all play the same instrument, and there isn't a lot of us...

Y'all are fantastic players, pioneers. Nobody is disputing that. If I (I can only speak for myself) seem like I am "dismissing" anybody's playing, or background with a stupid message board post I made, I am not. I have learned tons from everybody here, even if it's just the suggestion of an idea... So big respect to all of my Internet pen pals, I love you all even if you hate me!

Anyways... We play a really cool instrument that seems like it could accommodate a huge variety of approaches, and I mean that prom the perspective of someone claiming nothing more than ownership of a couple of instruments (I bought 3, still have two, will buy more).

A thread on tuning is starting to feel like a penis measuring match, dudes... Surely we can get away from who spent more decades doing this or that, and who went to school here, who plays with who, and who achieved more with the most validity... None of that helps me with my notes... (my perspective only)

Steve, I love you man, but I really feel like you singled me out dude! What with quoting me and stuff... That's cool, it's easy to misinterpret intention from a message board post, I am guilty of posting stuff that maybe doesn't come across the way I intended and stuff ensues... So, no worries, man! You don't owe me anything, I am not a Stickist, just a music enthusiast. No threat, not at all... so I hope we're cool., man! Yes, I know I am annoying, but SUPER stoked about music...

So, for my part in this thread going sideways, a big "Hey guys, I'm Sorry" and I bet if we were in one big room talking about this it would be a non-issue, cleared up in 10 seconds or less.

Peace, out...

Love,

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:51 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Hi Monk.

While I have (for now) made the conscious decision not to consider switching tunings, I have been really, really interested in what you are doing since I first read your posts about it...I understand (I think) and agree with your contention that a Stick Piano tuning could help open doors in academia. Further, I enjoy learning classical pieces starting from piano scores (I just spent most of a lesson this morning with Steve looking at a Bach Invention), so it resonates with me there as well. Even though I choose to continue with bass fifths, I definitely see how 4ths could be a benefit.

1.. What would it take for me to see what you're up to? Is there a place you play that an inclined person could come see you? I know it probably wouldn't happen because I'm two states away, but it never hurts to ask. Heck, maybe you're headed to Vancouver or Interlochen. That would be Awesome, with a capital "A".

2. I can't speak to PM communications or personal interactions, but I have read all of your posts over the past few years. Perhaps there are those who "don't get it", but I have seen nobody shouting you down. I would ask you to consider the possibility that you could at times be seeing offense where none was intended. In this day and age of indirect communication, it happens from time to time, and this forum is no exception. Just something to consider.

Cheers.

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:59 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Monk. You said we put you down. I see no evidence. Only a supposed disagreement that you said 4ths hasn't been proven better.
Now since you seem to have tried alternate tunings but have settled into my tuning of choice, 4ths, why the confrontational attitude?
Just a question, no more
And yes Victor, we had a very explorative Bach and Santana lesson this morning...in 4ths. I enjoyed the analysis
SA


Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:34 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Just last week Greg showed up on my poll about reading and basically pissed all over it--instrument isn't as good as others for reading, takes way too long, sight reading at speed not possible, mirrored fourths "would be" better for reading, not "are" better. Gee thanks!
You would have to go back a bit, but I had to post the same stuff over and over for years with so very little response because Greg took issue with everything I said. I thought that if I showed him in person at FHA '13 what I was doing, this would change. But the second I started playing, a chorale, he was all over me finding fault and was not even listening to the exceptional stuff I was offering...he was completely into establishing his dominance. I was the student, he the master. When I objected to this, I was treated to the most dripping condescension. Waste of $1000. And he did actually shout me down--THERE IS NO METHOD FOR THE STICK! despite the fact that I use one. Miserable experience, and since then I see his "encouragement" in a certain light.

Mad Monk.

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:11 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
mad_monk wrote:
Just last week Greg showed up on my poll about reading and basically pissed all over it--instrument isn't as good as others for reading, takes way too long, sight reading at speed not possible, mirrored fourths "would be" better for reading, not "are" better. Gee thanks!
You would have to go back a bit, but I had to post the same stuff over and over for years with so very little response because Greg took issue with everything I said. I thought that if I showed him in person at FHA '13 what I was doing, this would change. But the second I started playing, a chorale, he was all over me finding fault and was not even listening to the exceptional stuff I was offering...he was completely into establishing his dominance. I was the student, he the master. When I objected to this, I was treated to the most dripping condescension. Waste of $1000. And he did actually shout me down--THERE IS NO METHOD FOR THE STICK! despite the fact that I use one. Miserable experience, and since then I see his "encouragement" in a certain light.

Mad Monk.
Randy, you've taken years to develop something that could be huge...and every time I interact with you it's the same story. "It's not ready." When I met with you in 2013, I told you if you put it in a book form I'd ask Emmett to publish it. You can't deny that because you know that's what I said. Where's your method?

I'm glad you're on a path that works for you. but I would post this. It is harder to learn how to do what you are doing on a fretboard. It IS much harder. If it wasn't harder, you'd be showing us already. That doesn't mean you don't have a great thing going. I wish you all the best.

Until you actually put it out there, it's just your thing. Condescension? All I asked you to do was to slow things down so that you could explain to me what you were doing. You wouldn't do it. I'd still love it if you could do that. I'm sorry you had the reaction you did. It was a really disappointing interaction for me as well, especially because I've been a champion of mirrored 4ths for years (just ask Rob Martino). I wanted to "get" what you were offering, but you wouldn't explain it to me.

I'm still waiting, breath abated, and when you finally get things to the point where you want to show us, you'll have my full attention..

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:37 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Seancasler wrote:
Has anybody tried doing the melody side in thirds?

I am thinking in terms of using primarily for midi and get more piano like intervals for chords.

Looking for anybody that might have experience and suggestions.
Major or minor? or mix? starting note, Gauges of strings that have been sucessful etc..

Thanks!
I did have a Grand Stick set up with the bass side in minor 3rds for a while. It was fun for chords, but the range becomes very limited. the other deficit compared to 4ths or 5ths is that you don't have a regular number of notes per string in diatonic scales (3 per string for 4ths and 4 per string for 5ths).

If you goal is to play left hand piano chords, I'd suggest minor 3rds, and have the highest X-fret string at the Bb below middle C.

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:50 pm
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