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 melody (or bass) in 3ds? 
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
I was trying to work on something else today, but the "Perry Como's Mom" chord progression kept calling to me. (go back a few posts to see my solution to the 7-1-3-5, 1-3-4-5 question)

The E-G-A-C is a puzzler. But the A-F#-A-C could be played(on the melody side of the Stick in baritone-melody tuning) as index finger on the 4th string at the 15th fret, "A". Pinky on the 3rd string at the 19th fret, "F#". Ring finger on the 2nd string at the 17th fret, an octave of the first "A". And finally your middle finger on the first string at the 15th fret, "C". Again, with some practice, can be played as singletons in a sequence or all together and held down. So it looks like you might be changing your tuning to be able to play the E-G-A-C chord with one hand. Hopefully that wont make it too much work to play all the other chords you will need.(I kid, I know that many chords are impossible, or next to, to play with 5 strings tuned in 4ths). But you know what you are looking for, at least at the moment, I would guess.

Hope some of this helps and I hope you get to meet some of these teachers in person some day and see that they really just wanted to help you. And if not, I hope I have given you some better uses for your middle finger! ;)

Mike

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Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:55 am
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Lee Vatip wrote:
"So, to summarize. there is NO legitimate approach to a Stick outside of the "Lee Vatip Approved method"."
Thirds Guy


Ummm.....I don't believe this was said by anyone except you. You're obviously on a mission to be annoying. Mission acvomplished.
I await your next sarcastic response.


I honestly did not see anything sarcastic about my responses. What I see is that you seem to be convinced that yours is the only valid approach. And you have essentially tried to brow beat anybody that disagrees with you.


Lee Vatip wrote:
Don't do it.


Lee Vatip wrote:
I started guitar in '69 and Stick in '83 and teaching for over 4 decades should qualify.




Lee Vatip wrote:
Please dismiss my decades of experience and conclusions. Never mind.


Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:49 am
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Ha. You call that brow beating once again, ha. Pretty thin skinned dude.
I teach students with many different tunings. You specifically asked about thirds tunings. I specifically outlined a few times why fourths is better. You don't want to hear my experiences? That's fine. Go your own way.
You were very sarcastic and remainl confrontational.
You want to prove your point that I'm wrong?
Tune your Stick in thirds. Record your beloved progression. Prove your point that 4ths is not the way to go. And if you truly believe experience is unimportant why did you ask the initial question. I await your video


Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:00 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
To tell you the truth, i will always play music on a stick, any day, regardless of the tuning. Just because I will always try to find a way to make it happen (music), regardless of the potential technical limitations of said tuning, taking advantage of it's particularities. I chose 4th's and 5th's. Just because the explanations made sense and because I am in no way inclined to reinvent the wheel... like I said, I just want to play music, it's my music that defines me, not the tuning I use. So, with That being said, I totally agree with Krex: I don't care, and Bret's post was the best thing here.
Respect each other. Respect the years and experience of others. If you feel your road is different, all you have to do is just travel it, quietly, keep an open heart. Make beautiful music and soon you'll have followers too. This thread is boring - but it could have been interesting!
Oh, and by the way, since I'm at it: if someone wants to give something back to this community please do post your videos. If you're afraid of what might happen in the future, then don't. Jesus!!!!! Why is everyone mad at each other? Be polite! You're all intelligent people!


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Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:23 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Wow....this is an amusing bunch of banter. I normally stay quiet on this board for the most part. I am here to learn as much as possible about this instrument. Now...I feel the need to speak up because post wars like this have been too common and have driven people away from the board and maybe the instrument.

Be forewarned before you read this post....this is not passive aggressive , this is active aggressive, and will call out this Monk person. If you want to be peaceful and huggy huggy, then don't read this. While the original post was by a different person, this Monk person took things too far.

Too many times I have seen on this board people ask for an opinion and then get insulted when it doesn't match theirs. They then go all keyboard warrior and the flame war ensues. Look...if you can't take it...then don't post. Be a troll and lurk and leave the grown ups to discuss the real stuff.

Monk...you are simply acting like a petulant child. You straight out escalated against both Steve and Greg and you sir, are out of line.

I like how some are trying to be civil, but others have nice passive aggressive tones in their posts....and then K Rex (whom I more closely identify with) who has my shared outlook of "Who the fuck cares?"

But because of this...I can no longer stay quiet. Stupid shit needs to be called out so that maybe in the future it will stop.

I'm new to the stick world...yes...but I'll take what works for me and toss the rest. My instrumental experience and training range from wind instruments to strings to percussion over my 47 years of life. I am better than some and woefully lacking when compared to others. I, unlike this Monk fool, can accept that. If I come up with an idea, and more experienced people tell me why it may work or may not, then I should heed that and take it for what it's worth.

An adult response to Steve's "Don't do it" statement would have been: "OK...I'm listening....where am I off the rails here?" You could have then taken or left the information and all would have been good. New stickists could have seen the pros and cons of the discussion, but Noooo...it degraded into "Well how would you play oyo como va then?" in a thinly veiled snarky series of comebacks.

Newsflash.....the stick is not an organ...it's not a guitar...it's not like anything out there, so don't try to modify it into something it's not. It's a shitty guitar and an even worse organ. It is a unique instrument, so why the hell are you trying to make it be something it's not? Hey...why don't you try doing new things on it, in the way it was designed, that nobody has seen instead of bastardizing it into a lack luster copy of another instrument? It's unique to the musical world, so we should be able to come up with a unique form of music because of it.

Here's the breakdown...cuz stupid shit like this gets under my skin and does nothing but degrade what we're trying to do.

Mad Monk (Emphasis on MAD)....you sound angry and bitter at best, and if you have this "awesome revolutionary method" then shit or get off the pot. Seems like Greg and you have discussed it and you have precisely DICK to show for it. In which case...don't be talking about how great it is without anything to back it up. If it is awesome, write it up and record it so we all can benefit. Until then...it's vaporware..like alot of the shit Microsoft promises but never actually delivers. It's frustrating as a new stickist to watch and hear people pull the crap I have seen you post over the time I've been on this board. It's like you wish to float above us all with lofty gnostic wisdom that you have yet to share. It's arrogant and demeaning and the tone of your posts are insulting. So...here I am, as a new player, telling you that you sound like a jackass and you make myself and other players want to move away from this board.

You posted a point blank question.... "What about tuning in 3rds"...you got a point blank Answer "Don't do it". And then the cat fight ensued.

Let's look at Greg and Steve for a second here. 2 completely different approaches to the same instrument. Fingering (3 vs 4 finger approach), hand positions (straight up vs slanted), Movements, etc. Both are fantastic players, covering the range of music from classical to today...and the really couldn't be more different in their approaches. I may disagree with one or the other, but out of respect for both their accomplishments, and their willingness to put themselves out there and to push and promote this instrument to the level that they do, I stay quiet with my occasional dissension, and I absorb and learn.

If I actually had a dissenting opinion and a BETTER way to do it as you proclaim....you would see a video, a logical explanation and a quantifiable set of documentation to illustrate my points. You have none of that. So...I call bullshit on you...please shut the hell up.

Can we do ANYTHING on this instrument? Sure...but there's an old saying that shows the wisdom that you are sorely lacking. That saying is "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." I can go down the freeway in 2nd gear, but it doesn't mean I should or that it is in any way beneficial.

So.... here's my heartfelt response:

Tune it anyway you want...put it all in 3rds. I believe there was a video of a foreign gentleman who did just that. You'll notice the completely different fret markings he had to add to accommodate that. I'm sure there is some sort of logic there, but it is not readily apparent. Do it, make it better, make it worse, make it great, make it suck....whatever, but until you actually have something to put out there and explain, drop the defensive attitude...it just pisses the rest of us off. If that's your goal...great job...you're a douche.

You asked a question, you got responses, you got shitty, others tried to backup what they were saying...you got worse. I work with Steve as a student and couldn't be happier. I have read Greg's stuff, have his materials, and love what he does. Your level of disrespect to both of them on this board is sickening and you should be ashamed.

Are you a better player than me? Sure...maybe...but we'll never know, because you won't show us will you? I'm a total noob to this instrument and I know it, and thus I know my place when talking to more experienced players. My place to to learn and expand on what they have done, not to challenge their wisdom and reinvent the instrument from scratch.

So...to sum this all up....and to everyone reading this post. As a newer member and player...please cut the shit guys. This childish bantering back and forth is terrible for the board, for the community, and for the instrument.

I'm all for discussing music on this board, it is what truly unites us. This silly infighting needs to stop.

Now..Mr Monk....should you wish to address my direct assault on your posts, that's fine....but know this....my tone here is meant to make you mad at me. It is meant to piss you off. Why would I do such a thing, especially when previously stating that the fighting needs to stop?
Simple...you now know how I, and probably others reading these posts feel, when you post arrogant crap this this back and forth. If this needs to get worse before it gets better...then so be it. Come at me bro.

I appeal to you to adjust your ways, but I fear that my request shall fall on deaf ears....but maybe, just maybe, you'll respond with "Yeah...I kind of got shitty there...sorry guys....I'll post a video tomorrow about what I was trying to come up with. Thanks"

We shall see. Ball is in your court now Monk...what will you do? Will you recant your wicked and rude ways or will you attack me? Let's all sit back and watch you show your true colors.

Sincerely Frustrated,

Tom Powers


Last edited by Thomas_Powers on Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:44 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Long post!
You can be sure I have been sorry for days, for stirring up old shit.
I will therefore not try to justify myself.
However, there is one thing I would like to correct, and that is the "revolutionary new method"...those are not my words.
There exists the option to learn to read on the instrument using piano method books and standard theory books, including jazz theory. That is it. In this case you have to switch to mirrored fourths.


Mad Monk.

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Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:09 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Mr Monk, I understand what you're saying. We can move on.

Seancasler...what say you? Though my post may have been unfairly slanted toward Mr Monk, you were the original poster and had a tremendous amount of disrespect for the others on the board.

TP


Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:21 pm
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
To go back to initial subject.
I'm also fairly new to Stick. To be honest I found this fantastic to come to an instrument which has a fairly short history.
I play some other 'older' instruments, and I have to tell then I didn't had the opportunity to even think... Can I modify this, can I change tuning....

This is obviously a big advantage when you come to stick, but frankly can't it be at some point a disadvantage.

I'm quite convinced we need restrictions in anything to learn. You have to give yourself rules. And not always try to adapt things to you, but a bit of the opposite.
Therefore, I decided, and not saying all should do like this, to follow the 5th/4th tuning as it was the intention of the man who created the instrument.
It must be for valuable reasons, as valuable as deciding to tune vioilin in 4th when it was invented....

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Last edited by tiega on Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:28 am
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Thomas_Powers wrote:
Mr Monk, I understand what you're saying. We can move on.

Seancasler...what say you? Though my post may have been unfairly slanted toward Mr Monk, you were the original poster and had a tremendous amount of disrespect for the others on the board.

TP


I will repost the Orig question:

seancasler wrote:
"Has anybody tried doing the melody side in thirds?

I am thinking in terms of using primarily for midi and get more piano like intervals for chords.

Looking for anybody that might have experience and suggestions.
Major or minor? or mix? starting note, Gauges of strings that have been sucessful etc.."


The question is about using the melody side of the stick AS A MIDI Controller.

So to say.. "it's not an organ or a piano or a xxx.."..Well, YA.. That is the point AND the premise here.

In my small minded little head.. I expected the responses to be:

"wound 16s track the best on my (fill in the blank), so no reason to not use 5 of those, tuned all the same and then adjust the pitch through the controller. This will make set up feel and response through the controller optimal."

Or..

"i use all plain strings 9-10-12-14-16 tuned in minor thirds" as I feel that having different gauges at actual pitch reference to be helpful over having the same note through out, and the varying feel of the gauges feels more "normal". I also feel that the minor intervals line up more naturally for major/ minor and dominant 7ths..


Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:30 am
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Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Seancasler wrote:

The question is about using the melody side of the stick AS A MIDI Controller.

So to say.. "it's not an organ or a piano or a xxx.."..Well, YA.. That is the point AND the premise here.

In my small minded little head.. I expected the responses to be:

"wound 16s track the best on my (fill in the blank), so no reason to not use 5 of those, tuned all the same and then adjust the pitch through the controller. This will make set up feel and response through the controller optimal."

Or..

"i use all plain strings 9-10-12-14-16 tuned in minor thirds" as I feel that having different gauges at actual pitch reference to be helpful over having the same note through out, and the varying feel of the gauges feels more "normal". I also feel that the minor intervals line up more naturally for major/ minor and dominant 7ths..


Sean,

Since you didn't provide any reference pitches for what the strings would be tuned to, nor state whether you wanted light, medium or heavy gauges, no one could make an informed suggestion along these lines. So, please provide the information, and I'll be happy to help you with that.

As far as tapping goes, the fact that intervals you play simultaneously align at a given fret is only helpful when playing the notes with double-and triple stops, It's actually unhelpful for playing arpeggios... something to consider.

As far as major or minor thirds is concerned, major 3rds would allow you to make better us of the natural shape of the hand in relation to the strings than minor 3rds would, because with minor 3rds, you would always have to add some notes of the chord at frets closer to the bridge on higher strings, whereas with major 3rds, the chords will open back towards the nut.
This can cause accidental damping, whereas that is never a risk when the chord fits the shape of the open hand.

The frets are close enough together that a minor 2nd is very easy to reach even in major 3rds.

Did you see my suggestion about de-tuning strings within the MIDI interface? Since your goal is to use the instrument as a MIDI controller, whatever tuning you decide on, this could be a great avenue for expanding the range or chordal possibilities.

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Last edited by greg on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:51 am
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