It is currently Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:06 am




Post new topic Reply to topic Bookmark and Share  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
 melody (or bass) in 3ds? 
Author Message
Member
Member

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:19 pm
Posts: 57
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
greg wrote:
Seancasler wrote:

The question is about using the melody side of the stick AS A MIDI Controller.

So to say.. "it's not an organ or a piano or a xxx.."..Well, YA.. That is the point AND the premise here.

In my small minded little head.. I expected the responses to be:

"wound 16s track the best on my (fill in the blank), so no reason to not use 5 of those, tuned all the same and then adjust the pitch through the controller. This will make set up feel and response through the controller optimal."

Or..

"i use all plain strings 9-10-12-14-16 tuned in minor thirds" as I feel that having different gauges at actual pitch reference to be helpful over having the same note through out, and the varying feel of the gauges feels more "normal". I also feel that the minor intervals line up more naturally for major/ minor and dominant 7ths..


Sean,

Since you didn't provide any reference pitches for what the strings would be tuned to, nor state whether you wanted light, medium or heavy gauges, no one could make an informed suggestion along these lines. So, please provide the information, and I'll be happy to help you with that.

As far as tapping goes, the fact that intervals you play simultaneously align at a given fret is only helpful when playing the notes with double-and triple stops, It's actually unhelpful for playing arpeggios... something to consider.

As far as major or minor thirds is concerned, major 3rds would allow you to make better us of the natural shape of the hand in relation to the strings than minor 3rds would, because with minor 3rds, you would always have to add some notes of the chord at frets closer to the bridge, whereas with major 3rds, the chords will open back towards the nut. The frets are close enough together that a minor 2nd is very easy to reach even in major 3rds.

Did you see my suggestion about de-tuning strings within the MIDI interface? Since you goal is to use the instrument as a MIDI controller, whatever tuning you decide on, this could be a great avenue for expanding the range or chordal possibilities.



Greg,
Yes. Thank you.

THAT really was the nature of the question. Guages of strings and starting pitch for best results.

And that really is the focus here. To essentially have a stick bass, while expanding the melody side to be used as a midi controller for holding down chords and what the best approach to that would be. (thinking primarily big chords Mellotron/ Organ/ Strings).

And yes. IMO this idea is to expand the potential role of a stick in a band. One that does not step on the toes of guitar player, keeps the bass going and can hold down pads that sonic-ally/ textural wise don't step on the keys player (IME keyboard player HATE to sit there holding down pads anyway).


Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:12 am
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 6170
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Seancasler wrote:

Greg,
Yes. Thank you.

THAT really was the nature of the question. Guages of strings and starting pitch for best results.

And that really is the focus here. To essentially have a stick bass, while expanding the melody side to be used as a midi controller for holding down chords and what the best approach to that would be. (thinking primarily big chords Mellotron/ Organ/ Strings).

And yes. IMO this idea is to expand the potential role of a stick in a band. One that does not step on the toes of guitar player, keeps the bass going and can hold down pads that sonic-ally/ textural wise don't step on the keys player (IME keyboard player HATE to sit there holding down pads anyway).


Okay, I really think major 3rds is going to be the best of the two, especially if you are only going to have 5 melody strings. There's just not enough range with 5 strings in minor 3rds.

The highest reasonable pitch is D, so if you put a D at string one, that will give you middle C

D
A#
F#
D
A# (below actual middle C)
F# (for a Grand Stick)

If you think you will want the chords to go lower, then it might makes sense to start with C at the top (you can always transpose within your sound source)

C
G#
E
C
G#
E (for Grand Stick)

As a recovering keyboardist myself, I would absolutely chose this second option.

For medium gauge strings, the set would be:

C 9
G# 10
E 13
C 14 (middle C)
G# 22 wound
E 30 wound (for grand stick)

The way the hand fits the chords is really, really important, IMO.

If you are going to play only bass lines with the left hand "inverted 4ths", starting with a low C at the X fret would be a good tuning (I think), because it puts natural notes on more of the inlays instead of flats and sharps. If you wanted to be consistent with your right hand shapes, then you should mirror them, though, with maj 3rds instead of 4ths. The way the left hand fits the board, with more flexibility in hand angles, is more flexible for chord shapes with major 3rds, so the way the chord opens up is not as big of a deal as it is with the right hand.

_________________
Happy tapping, greg
please don't PM me, If you want to get in touch use email stickist@aol.com

Stick Lessons by Skype and Google Video Chat


Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:40 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Site Donor
Site Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:50 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
tiega wrote:
I'm quite convinced we need restrictions in anything to learn. You have to gave rules. And not always try to adapt things to you, but a bit of the opposite.
Therefore, I decided, and not saying all should do like this to follow the 5th/4th tuning as it was the intention of the man who creates the instrument.
It must be for valuable reasons, as valuable as deciding to tune vioilin in 4th...

The standard tuning is fine, as long as you do not want to read music.
However, some people really do want to read and they should be made aware of the existence of a tuning which works for that purpose.

Mad Monk.

_________________
SG12/mirrored 4ths 5+7
10-String Grand/Mirrored 4ths dual bass
Railboard/Standard tuning

August, 1983


Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:53 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Site Donor
Site Donor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:49 am
Posts: 1318
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
The first part of that discussion really pissed me off. Now with those detailed answers from GH, it really become read-able (and quite instructive even if I'm still not that interested with this idea if changing the tuning if the Stick). Thanks Greg to spend some time though for such a detailed information.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ghostlike_ether


Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:15 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 644
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Thomas_Powers wrote:
Be forewarned before you read this post....this is not passive aggressive , this is active aggressive, and will call out this Monk person. If you want to be peaceful and huggy huggy, then don't read this. While the original post was by a different person, this Monk person took things too far.

Monk...you are simply acting like a petulant child. You straight out escalated against both Steve and Greg and you sir, are out of line.

Tom Powers


Jesus, did you graduate from the Keith Olbermann School of Indignant Posturing?

Give it a rest...


Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:19 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Member
Member

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:19 pm
Posts: 57
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
greg wrote:
Seancasler wrote:

For medium gauge strings, the set would be:

C 9
G# 10
E 13
C 14 (middle C)
G# 22 wound
E 30 wound (for grand stick)

The way the hand fits the chords is really, really important, IMO.

If you are going to play only bass lines with the left hand "inverted 4ths", starting with a low C at the X fret would be a good tuning (I think), because it puts natural notes on more of the inlays instead of flats and sharps. If you wanted to be consistent with your right hand shapes, then you should mirror them, though, with maj 3rds instead of 4ths. The way the left hand fits the board, with more flexibility in hand angles, is more flexible for chord shapes with major 3rds, so the way the chord opens up is not as big of a deal as it is with the right hand.


Greg,
Thank you. This is where I will start. Thanks.

As for inlay. What works for me is to just put those 2d grader "good work" tin foil stars on the C notes to use as reference until I get used to a tuning. It has worked really well on my Warr8 in the past to go from 4ths to 5ths to crafty. on a 10str (So, for example on 5ths/4th E is always one fret down and one string over from the C) going from standard/ MR to Double bass is just a matter of sliding the reference up or down until it is learned.


Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:31 am
Profile
Resident Contributor
Resident Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 pm
Posts: 436
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
bachdois wrote:
...Why is everyone mad at each other?...


...everyone ? ? ....
...at each other, sure ? ? ....

bachdois wrote:
...Be polite!
...


...of course, it's just what we learned in the Kindergarten...

bachdois wrote:
...You're all intelligent people!...


...oh, thank you... :oops: ...

bachdois wrote:
...I just want to play music, it's my music that defines me, not the tuning I use.
...


...what we wants the more....


Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:22 pm
Profile
Resident Contributor
Resident Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 pm
Posts: 436
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
Thomas_Powers wrote:
...If you want to be peaceful and huggy huggy, then don't read this....


...I've read it...
... and ... decided to stay peaceful and huggy huggy...

Thomas_Powers wrote:
...I like how some are trying to be civil,
...


...I like TO BE civil...
... polite! ...
...intelligent people!...

Thomas_Powers wrote:
...But because of this...I can no longer stay quiet. Stupid shit needs to be called out so that maybe in the future it will stop.
...


...I like TO BE civil...
... polite! ...
...intelligent people!...

Thomas_Powers wrote:
...I, unlike this Monk fool, can accept that....


...I like TO BE civil...
... polite! ...
...intelligent people!...

Thomas_Powers wrote:
...Mad Monk (Emphasis on MAD)...

...It's arrogant and demeaning and the tone of your posts are insulting....

...the wisdom that you are sorely lacking....

...piss you off....



...I like TO....
....
....


Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:32 pm
Profile
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:39 am
Posts: 24
Location: Beynes - FRANCE
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
mad_monk wrote:
tiega wrote:
I'm quite convinced we need restrictions in anything to learn. You have to gave rules. And not always try to adapt things to you, but a bit of the opposite.
Therefore, I decided, and not saying all should do like this to follow the 5th/4th tuning as it was the intention of the man who creates the instrument.
It must be for valuable reasons, as valuable as deciding to tune vioilin in 4th...

The standard tuning is fine, as long as you do not want to read music.
However, some people really do want to read and they should be made aware of the existence of a tuning which works for that purpose.

Mad Monk.

Mad Monk,

Sorry, I play also classical instruments, therefore I read music.
Isn't cello tuned in 5th?? Maybe cello players don't read music ;)
Sorry, but I don't see any relationship between 5th tuning and reading scores.
The only thing is 5th tuning forces hand to move more along fretboard, nothing more. This could be consider as a disadvantage, but eh, perfection doesn't exist, all is about compromises.
So you (could) have this disadvantage, but you also have good things coming from 5th tuning. A wider range of notes, a way to have opened chords, which is good to have on bassy side.

So if I understand your remark well, it is more... If you want to read (in fact play) keyboard music on Stick. Yes in this case I agree 5th can be a bit difficult to handle.
But once more it is more because you try to play a music written for another instrument than the original one.
As you seem to know quite a lot about music, theory and orchestration, you would easily admit that some pieces can be very easy to play with one instrument, while the exact same piece would be a nightmare to play on another instrument.

A good example would be Ravel's Bolero, where nearly all instruments in the orchestra play at one point the theme (the 2 themes to be precise).
Let's look at second theme played by Tenor sax, and the exact same theme played by Trombone a bit later. For sax it is really easy, while for Trombone it is a pure challenge (as much as it is very common to have this piece in orchetsra contest). Does this means Trombone is not a good instrument, and we should try to replace its way of working... let say by replacing the coulisse by keys?

I don't think so... the beauty of musical instruments are their specificities. If you want to play keyboards part exactly the way they are intended to be played, why not stopping Stick and play keyboards.

_________________
Gautier, very happy owner of a Railboard...


Last edited by tiega on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:34 pm
Profile
Site Donor
Site Donor
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 5:55 am
Posts: 105
Location: Melbourne , Australia
Post Re: melody (or bass) in 3ds?
K Rex wrote:
Balt-A-Sar wrote:
...just forgott to ask, Mr K Rex, what's your opinion on tuning in 3ds?...


I couldn't fucking care less.

K


Yeah!

Nice to see the gloves off for a change around here. All becomes pretty friggen boring when everyone says "yes" all the time.


Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:36 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Bookmark and Share  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lbrown and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

board3 Portal - based on phpBB3 Portal Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.
Heavily modified by Stickist.com. Stickist.com is an authorized Chapman Stick® site. The Chapman Stick® and NS/Stick™ and their marks are federally registered trademarks exclusively licensed to Stick Enterprises, Inc., and are used on Stickist.com and NSstickist.com with SEI's permission.
Click here for more information.