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stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
https://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11364		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  begin again [ Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
SO the conversation on M-S style amplification, dual mono vs stereo, etc has me just wondering about people's approaches to the instrument itself

How many of you will run the stick (I mean the stick itself at the pickup) in mono...with all the strings as one integrated signal.
I mean do this as a matter of practice as opposed to doing it for convenience or dealing with a technical limitation (just having one channel available on outboard equipment)

and I guess, by extension, that asks the question in terms of approach the the playing itself...Do you, and when, do you find yourself thinking in terms of a single voice

sorry for the softly defined question
Author:  Jayesskerr [ Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
Cool post!

I find that the instrument is a lot easier to play if you treat it as "one note after the other" and not too much polyphonic action happening... In that setting it works great as a sort of instrument that would work nicely in an ensemble context, particularly if there is already a bassist and a guitarist. Ten fingers attacking a linear type of solo would really be something... I do it sometimes, but my interest is in other things with the instrument... Mono type settings work great for this...

But the self-accompaniment aspect, that is a challenge and a pretty amazing attribute. And as such, you have to consider that you could be playing a bass line, complete with chord stabs and comping it, and then play opposing melodic figures, as well as comping and chord stabs along with a percussive type of thing to flesh out your groove... Absolutely mind boggling. In this setting, especially if one is messing with effects, it really makes sense to keep the instrument stereo... Tons of potential, plus you could switch back and forth, whatever works, I would say...

I dunno, man. I guess it all depends on what you think your role is ultimately going to be, and what the playing environment is, your musical vision, all that...

But I will leave the real answers to folks who are actual musicians. I'm really not qualified to give any thing more than extra dialogue. Good luck!
Author:  earthgene [ Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
Everyone here will have great ideas for how to visualize this. I have found that talking it through, which can sometimes be exhausting, is really a sound approach for conceptualizing "what you do here".

Image

I have personally found that one instrument, with two separate signal paths, is my preferred approach. That coupled with a mixer gives me some nice options whatever role I may be called upon to play. My preference is +3 Bass role, +1 to melodic ambiance. I try leaning towards +2 to melodic ambiance where the opportunity presents itself, but not so much that it works against the groove.

I confess, I do miss having a separate bass rig for just "Stick as bass" gigs. I also want to get a hold of a Sans amp for the left hand, Dbro has me sold and he gets great tone out of his.
Author:  WerkSpace [ Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
Stereo. Each side of the instrument is enhanced separately.
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/audio_interfaces/ur_series/models/ur44.html

I think of the Stick as two separate instruments that work together to make awesome tones. It's definitely a lot of fun.
Author:  bachdois [ Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
I never managed to see it as more than one instrument. I do treat both sides separately, different fx and all, then mix them together on a mixer and then listen to it mono. I never got used to having the sound divided between two different speakers, unless they're stacked together. Much like when I use 2 mic's on the double bass: one gives me the low end, the other one the attack - each has it's own purpose. But then I mix them and that's the result I like. Focusing on one instrument but having the output (not just different EQ, but actually different notes) divided by 2 different sound sources is confusing for me.


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Author:  greg [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
So this is both a sonic and technique question.

You can approach it as a piano, or as a separate bass/guitar. In the first instance you might be playing two completely independent parts, but applying a similar sound to both outputs. In the second you might be playing very interdependent rhythm grooves, but with distinct sonic treatments for each side.

You can also play highly interdependently using a unified sound, and highly independently using different sounds..

So the answer to your question is....

YES!
Author:  Per Boysen [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
Great question B-A! I totally approach the Stick as one instrument, but one with an exceptionally wide tonal range. The reason I got into Stick playing five years ago was that I wanted to play more solo concerts in a manner that harpists and piano players can do so well. Thinking about balancing your performance on the spot regarding tempo changes with a subtle interplay between melodies, chords and bass lines.

I still use separate outputs for the two six strings groups, treat them with effects (a little reverb and EQ; cutting out sub bass from the six melody strings to make room for the fat bass tones of the other side as well as to make higher melody lines fit smoothly on top of it). In my outdoors battery rig I feed these two lines into a simple battery-driven conference speaker (through a Strymon Big Sky with its "amp/speaker sim" active) and balance these two into the speaker that plays out an audible mono signal for the audience. For less expensive gear like this, sounding mono is more powerful to create the harp-like beautiful full-range sound I like...

On my indoors rig I do the same but with the difference that the output feed for the front-house PA is a stereo signal to be panned left/right by the engineer - with reverb, delay etc in stereo mixes for different sound patches.

I'm generally picky about achieving a kind of "power amp stage compression" when balancing the two six string group outputs against each other. This has to do both with levels and EQ. There is a certain sweetspot for a chord created by maybe two notes on the melody side and two notes on the bass side that includes a very low bass note, where you typically hear how the bass note is subtly ducking the chord and melody stuff. A phenomenon that breathes life into your playing and makes the sound of the instrument organic. (you would miss out on this if using two separate amps for the two sides)
Author:  rodan07 [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
My goal is to unify the two sides, but I run them into separate amps, so in practice I treat the Stick as two different instruments.

You could even treat the treble register of the bass side as a third instrument - I believe Joe Conti runs a separate pickup to his high strings?

R
Author:  earthgene [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
That's right! What a fantastic thread, I love hearing how others conceptualize this question. Joe Conti has a crazy custom rig with 2 strings fretless - it's wicked, never seen anything like it. Custom pickups and some crazy stuff going on with the back of it. I may have a pic laying around.
Author:  Alain [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: stick as 1 or 2 "instruments"
I like to see the stick as 1 instrument...a bit like a piano or a keyboard. If I put an effect, it's very often the same one on both sides. I use a "Y" to to through a power amp...this way it's mono. Rarely I use 2 amps to get different tones for each side.
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