okay, when I got my first Stick, I tuned it to, umm something... Then I got my Railboard which was in RMR (Sounded great) I then took some lessons with Steve A, and then I changed it to MR, still sounded all right, but I eventually changed it to Classic, and let it there until I got my 12 String, which was also in classic.

I stayed in classic for a while, until I decided to try mirrored 4ths, which was/is going great.

I am practicing like crazy, and my LH wrist is KILLING me in mirrored 4ths. Like, an agonizing dull ache the likes of which I have never experienced before; and to be truthful I am a bit concerned. (I am no wimp, lol so that's not it...)

So, I changed the Railboard to RMR, like when I first got it, and started playing it today.

Strange, no pain. Played for about 4 hours, no issue. (Well, my brain hurts from thinking about the tunings, but meh...) I also played guitar for 2-3 hours and again, no problem.

Back to the 12. I played it for 25 min, just doing my mirrored 4ths type stuff and my wrist in my LH is built up to an absolutely vicious ache. I play a lot of Octaves and 5ths in the LH of late, as well as a steady routine of "Martino" chords...

So I am thinking that the mirrored 4ths tuning, while very, very efficient for my 'quick' understanding of the instrument's layout is quite possibly hurting me...

So, I tuned the 12str back to 'Classic" and played for a while. 3 hours now, and no issues whatsoever. No pain, no nothing. The ache doesn't come around, and even when I'm doing '10ths' on the Grand, in classic (Which -major- is the same as the octave pattern in mir 4ths)

So I don't know what the $#$#%. Smarter, more talented people use this tuning with no problems... Or do they? Anyone else have any wrist pain in a particular tuning? It really crops up when I'm doing scalar interval sequences of 3rds... And a Bach 2 part invention that I almost have down...

Also, Des anyone else notice that The Railboard seems to really have a distinctly different 'tone' to it in RMR? I mean, it just seems to cut better, the notes come out easier, better tone...

Or am I insane?

Thanks guys, lemme know...

RMR was a tuning that Emmett essentially built around the instrument. I am not aware of any other Stick that has that distinction, so if it works right...?

It's good that you are recognizing what may be contributing to pain in your wrists and it's good to address this NOW. Often times, Stickists are learning on their own, which is great, but may not be aware of issues in their form of posture when practicing. More often than not, it's the left hand bending at almost a 90 degree angle so that the their fingers can be viewed against the fretboard.

I have not attributed this to any single tuning, however, you have multiple instruments, so I could see how playing the same song on a different Stick might be affecting this. Also consider the width between the 12 and 10 string instruments. While subtle, that small distance may be contributing to the ache in your wrist. Or, more likely than not, it's a combination of factors - you are taking the correct approach by trying to isolate the elements that may be contributing to it. Now that you mention it, I do recall some discomfort when switching from 10 string to my 12 string, but the reason was different.

After my second attempt into the 12-string world, it became apparent that I preferred the 10-string. While I greatly admire the work of many 12-string players, I've found a way that works for me with the 10. Same for the Railboard. I really enjoyed the feel and sound of the Railboard, but I prefer the feel of a wood Stick. I was able to move off of the 34" scale instrument and love the extended range of the 36" scale Stick. That took about 2 years to really make sense. Also recently switched back to the ACTV-2.

My point is this, things change. So long as you are paying attention to those changes you can evolve your true Chapman Stick form. Who knows what you'll be playing 5 years from now?! So long as you are wrists are feeling alright before, during and after time on the Chapman Stick. Great post, very relevant (unlike the Billboard awards) for people who like to play.

Really good points, Gene! Thanks for posting, definitely some stuff to think about...

I spent some time going back and forth in the tunings last night, and while mirrored 4ths offers a nice, tight, 4 frets for 4 fingers type of mentality on the bass side, my wrist is pretty bent regardless of where my elbows are. With that kind of bend, it's pretty obvious that some aspect of my physiology is going to suffer.

Live and learn, right? Some of us kids have to do it the hard way, always. Bummer, I was really happy with the layout of mirrored 4ths, and was making some very decent headway... Ahh well, all part of the quest.

I guess at the end of the day, the inventor of the instrument most likely tried this tuning (mirr 4ths) as part of his process, and most likely abandoned it in favour of 5ths on the bass side. And I'm betting that ergonomics had something to do with it.

Ahh well, I see where this is probably headed, I'll most likely resist for the rest of the week and then change my tuning to RMR for the RB and MR for the Grand. You know, I just about sold my Railboard- thank god I didn't! It's soooo handy...

Lol I'm not too far along to be utterly committed to anything at this point, so I guess it's a good time to experiment.

I wish I had some personal experience to offer here but I don't. But I do know that several Stickists live just fine with the fourths tuning.

Couldn't you just not bend your wrists like that? I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing why the different tuning makes you bend your wrist differently.

So Scott,

Were you trying to play the left hand 4ths with 3 fingers or 4? 3 lets you keep you left hand more open, more comfortable, less wrist bending, etc...

Lol you know me, always 4. But... I thought maybe that might be a thing, and tried a mostly 3 fingered approach to see if there might be a difference. Scaley stuff is not an issue, really as long as I keep a hand movement sort of thing going...

R5 and Octaves are the main culprit I think... I play a lot of them, and they hurt bad. The Martino-style Major and minor, even diminished chords are not a problem either, But guitar-style "barre chords" and power chords are a huge contributor to this ache...
Damn rock and roll!

Call SE and request a non-angled post for the belt hook assembly.
Many players do not know that angle of the fretboard is made flatter to your chest by installing one of these. The wrist does not have to bend so much, but you might have to crane your neck a bit to see what you are doing. I think both angled and non-angled posts should come with every new Stick so that players can try them both.

Mad Monk.

Hmmn. This is interesting, I didn't know they were available... Seeing what I'm doing isn't a problem at this point, as it's just the occasional glance for reference, and a sort of "overall view" I'm looking at.

Simply changing the tuning so far seems to be the easiest solution, but I shall investigate.

Thanks, guys...

[/quote]Couldn't you just not bend your wrists like that? I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing why the different tuning makes you bend your wrist differently.[/quote]

Sometimes the body needs to bend and twist in unusual ways in order to get the notes you want.
Sadly, the notes that the "other" hand is playing sometimes get in the way of just moving your body differently, because you are somewhat contorted in order to achieve one hand's stuff.

I have a lot going on in my practice day, sight-reading, chord studies, tunes, improve, scalar sequences... for hours a day. The instruments are seeing a lot of use and abuse, ergonomics are now a very serious consideration...

It seems a shame that the 4ths is causing you pain, because it otherwise seemed to be right up your alley.

I get hand pain every now and then from overplaying on piano, but 30 years in, my technique is pretty much how I play, other than working on making my left hand more active like it is for Stick. It's really not a problem for me very often, but I can relate to the feeling when it does happen. Regular 6-string guitar turns my left hand into an un-openable claw sometimes, but it's a very different hand movement than I use on piano. Also, using kitchen tongs that you have to squeeze is my biggest No No--but that's from 13 years of working as a cook in restaurants through school and supporting me as a starving gigging musician. If I squeeze anything too hard with my hands, they turn into The Claw. (I used to juggle a mean spatula back in the cook days--I've done it on stage for cheap applause to stall for time when there were technical difficulties. I'd be a good guest back when Letterman had Stupid Human Tricks.)

Man, I hope you can find a different solution than just abandoning 4ths altogether. It seems otherwise a very good idea for you!

I've stuck with Matched Reciprocal from day 1 on both my Sticks. Stick has been hard enough without having to learn new, new tunings. But best of luck and I hope you find your solution!