HI everyone,

The subject of tunings and how they influence what we do comes up with remarkable intensity from time to time on the forum. In an effort to keep this from dominating other subjects, I thought it might be helpful to have a thread dedicated to the subject. I encourage you to post your ideas in this one.

Ever since the early 1990s, every Stick made has the capacity for the player to easily change the tuning if they so desire, due to the fully adjustable bridge, adjustable pickups and the nut (and an easy truss adjustment helps too). Adjustable nuts have been a feature on Sticks since the early 1980s. If you don't like your new tuning, you can easily revert to the old one, without having to replace or carve the nut.

You can read more about the components of the instrument that make this freedom of experimentation possible here:

http://www.stick.com/instruments/construction/

For those of you who are curious about how Emmett's original Stick tuning came to be, check out this article:

http://www.stick.com/interviews/chapman_06_06/

Some terminology for newbies that will help you understand what's being talked about:

mirrored
The tunings on both sides progress from the outside to the inside of the instrument in the same way. Generally these tunings allow the hand to use the same motions and ergonomics to accomplish the same musical function, though there are still differences in fret distances that affect how things feel. The Classic tuning is a mirrored tuning of sorts, in that each hand's physical relationship from low to high strings is more similar than a parallel tuning would be. think of it as a "funhouse" mirror.

parallel
The tunings progress in the same direction from low to high. a continuous 4ths tuning as on the NS/Stick or Stick bass is a single grouping, but it is also two parallel groups of 4ths, for example.

inverted
The string group progresses in the opposite direction from what is customary in stringed instruments.

reciprocal
Geometric patterns on the board have the same pitch relationships on both sets of strings, but one is rising and the other falling. Inverted 5ths and conventional 4ths are reciprocal arrangements. So any shape on the bass strings is an inversion of that shape on the melody strings

crossed and uncrossed this refers to the orientation of the hands to the instrument, and whether they are primarily reaching over one string set to play the other. Uncrossed segregates the hands to the strings adjacent to the hand so that the hands will never run into each other while playing. Crossed gives each hand access to both sets of strings simultaneously.

I've experimented with many of the possible tunings out there, and I keep an instrument without any inlays for this purpose, including some odd ones like minor 3rds,

Glenn Poorman has made some excellent graphics that show these relationships. I encourage you to check them out at: http://www.stick.com/instruments/tunings/

The primary influences a tuning has are these:

1. chord structure
2. range
3. ergonomic
4. overlap
5. fingering possibilities
6. timbral progression between the strings

All of these impact the music you can make, and they all can inform the tuning choice you make. It's good to consider them, but it's also good to just dive in and play, and see what the implications are of what you already have. I've seen many people "idealize" a tuning only to find that when they finally have their instrument in hand they haven't considered what it means to only have a tapping hand to activate the string, rather than what they are used to (a fretting hand and a tapping hand working together).

After going through many different possibilities over the years, and teaching dozens of students who use tunings quite different from my own, I've come to rely on Emmett's original tuning concept with some minor changes. But rather than get into the "why" of that I'd rather start the discussion without me as a primary reference. I'd rather hear from you.

Greg, I've re-posted here the discussion we'd started elsewhere. Thanks for taking on this topic!
I've been thinking of changing my Railboard over to 4ths and leaving my wooden 10-string as is. The Railboard seems to lend itself well to classical music.

But I'm tailoring my Sticks to my style, and of course, the reverse is happening to me--meaning my style of music is changing because of my new abilities and interests in the Stick. I have a strong classical style in the rock and the New Age Progressive stuff that I do (really need a better, shorter name for that genre--my friends still call it "SteveMusic"), but I'm not intending to cover classical music, just play sometimes like I wish I was born in 1734. I don't know if I would benefit from 4ths tuning or not.

As you say, Emmett's design is very adaptable to an incredible wide range of tunings, and some am I! I'm fairly fearless on trying new things! I bought a left-handed 4-string bass guitar about 2 months ago from a co-worker and am rocking it J Hendrix style upside down. After Stick bass, the arrangement of the strings seems very natural to me and it's tuned in fourths. So some kismet karma coincidental serendipity there.

I admit I'm intrigued by the NS/Stick as well, so 4ths tuning might be a step on a path to other instruments entirely. But I absolutely love the fifths tuning on my Rosewood bass side and feel that the chords you can make are easy-peasy, all of them right there within 3 or so frets (love your fifths video illustrating all the chords, by the way, Greg. I've worn that thing out!)

To illustrate my intentions, this is my end goal for the Stick: here's an exploration of Aminor harmonic, done in a style that is what I want to emulate on the Stick. Sorry for the hijack, but this is where I'm trying to get to on the Stick(s):
"A Minor Explosion"

I should have mentioned that this was recorded "live" on the house electric piano in the living room and not in the studio. So that's me playing "live," warts and all (lots of warts--sorry!).

Another data point for me to consider: Rob Martino is also one of my favorite Stickists, and I find that the Stickists I've seen rocking the mirrored fourths all have a style I think is pretty damn cool. There is where I'd insert examples, but I don't want to gush on anyone. Just saying I've liked what I've heard and seen so far with the 4ths tuning. And the fifths! Thus my problem--but not really a problem at all, more an exploration into the Fourths Side in the near future!

May the Fourths Be With You All!
Or not, still bi-curiously, Steve

Steve,

If you're going to try 4ths just remember that the range on 5 strings will be more limited than what you have now. figure out what the lowest note you will need is, and the build up from there, but also balance that with how high you might need to go. The range limitation is the reason why mirrored 4ths is not offered as a standard tuning option for 10-string instruments at stick.com.

Also, due to the way the fretwork is machined into the Railboard, you can't "flip" the tuning and still have the same performance. So turning an inverted tuning into a parallel tuning on a Railboard isn't recommended. Emmett has Railboards machined specifically for that, and lefty models, etc.

This fret contouring is one of the factors that make Railboards play so amazingly well, and is unique to the Railboard among all stringed instruments, everywhere.

On other Sticks this isn't an issue because the fretwork is much subtler.

Mirrored 4ths, is no problem, however...

I think that's what I'm exploring, ultimately. I don't want to invert anything, although the NS/Stick is set up more traditionally. I inverted (actually flipped over) the left-hand bass to make it more Stick-like and because I'm right-handed--I'm not interested (yet) in the reverse. But mirrored 4ths is what I'm strongly considering. Excellent information; thanks!

I ended up settling on Classic tuning. It offers everything I need, or could want depending on what style of playing I pursue...

4ths on a guitar is so that you can easily sightread, and therefore position play, with a 4 frets for 4 fingers attitude that requires either a 1st or 4th finger position shift. The major 3rd is in there so that you can easily play a 6 note chord. Mini orchestra indeed...

The Stick, although evolved from a guitar, is it's own animal. We have yet to see what can be done, really. And what has already been done is awesome.

I mean, how many guitarists and bassists are there out there? And how many styles are they covering (not even including the "pros"). There are heaps of resources for guitarists, way more than for Stick. You have the original artists, and then all kinds of people doing covers. All kinds of different tunings, too...Check YouTube...

Anyways, I think that whatever the tuning you go with anything is possible. Personal preference, really. Mirrored 4ths would probably be a lot easier on my mind as I read about it, but I want a bigger range. Classic tuning for me. (And then I changed to mirrored 4ths! Doh!! Now I am a mirrored 4ths guy hahaha)

Also; There will always be some fuckwit there to tell you what is "not" possible... They are entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong it may be, lol

I will add two observations here about the inverted 5ths bass tuning that I have heard for years as concerns from people about the tuning.

1. You cannot play chords with close intervals on them in 5ths on a single set of strings with a single hand. that is an undeniable fact. I get around this to a degree through three strategies:
A. add notes on the 5ths group with the thumb of your right
B. tune the top string down to a 4th or minor 3rd. The cluster is usually wanted at the top
of the chord in any case
C. add the note with an available finger on the melody strings

2. It's harder to play rapid diatonic lines in 5ths than in 4ths. This is also true, but now that I have figured out my new fingering for it, it's not a problem at all. Major breakthrough for Stick players. 1-2-1-3 for diatonic lines, instead of 1-2-3-4. Try it.

Great post Greg...thanks. It's what I use to call the geometry of the instrument.

Having tuning options offers many advantages, but I feel there is a small loss of visual learning when watching someone with a different tuning play.

When I learned bass, there was no internet so any opportunity to hear and see someone play was very special. When this opportunity came around I intensely listened and watched to see what they were doing and how. to apply it to my own bass playing. I could supplement what I was hearing with visual information because (at that time) all basses had 4 strings and they were all tuned the same way.

You can still learn from watching other Stick players, but its not the same as what I experienced as a young cat learning bass. This in no way negates the value of having alternative tunings available to us, but I thought this "alternative" view was worth pointing out

PS. By watching musicians on TV I learned to see if they were playing or "lip syncing" and thus started my distaste for lip syncing.

I'm a fan of inverted mirrored 4ths tunings and I'll add a few thoughts.

• With 4ths in the bass section the notes don't go as high as with 5ths. This does create some limitations. Greg is being tactful here, but I would go farther and say mirrored 4ths really only work on a 12-string Stick. I think it's ideal on my SG12 and Rob uses it on his grand. I've tried it on a 10-string and I don't recommend it. It will frustrate you too much.
• I love the chords I can play with 4ths. They are the close interval kind that I also love on jazz guitar. I feel I can do voice leading better with 4ths, too.
• There are some intervals that aren't really possible with 5ths that are with 4ths. The main one that is used in some classical music is a minor 2nd.
• Left and right hand shapes are identical with mirrored 4ths. Scales and chords are mirrored but so are our hands. This is much different from a piano where the left pinky and right thumb play the lower notes. I really like being able to play the same lines in parallel an octave apart with the same fingering and string jumps. I'm working on a tune with this and it's really fun.
• And then there are basslines. This is one area where I struggled heavily with the 5ths tuning. I know there are several folks who walk a great bass line in 5ths, but they all have more years on the Stick and more time each week than I have. I am able to make much faster progress with 4ths. Modern basslines came from instruments tuned in 4ths. I know we don't have to just play what's been done before, but that's what I like. I want to walk a bassline and I'm getting there faster with 4ths.
• Next is classical music. I love playing it and I believe it works better in 4ths. I never have to change a piece, I only have to play it in a different key sometimes. A piano piece that fits on the SG12 can be played as written with less effort. There are other pieces that seem to work better for me that aren't piano. I spent months learning the famous Bach cello prelude on 5ths. It was hard and I had to make some compromises. When I switched to 4ths I was able to play it as written in a few weeks. Most classical music is just better with mirrored 4ths. That's an opinion yes, but I've tried it on both 5ths and 4ths and that's my experience.

OPINION ALERT!

Since we're among friends I would like to share how I feel fully. Emmett's vision is based on 10 strings. The 4ths/5ths is great for 10 strings and that's what I'd be using. I've talked to Emmett about this and he said he does not like 12 strings and doesn't understand why people like them. He created the 12-string Grand and the SG12 for others who asked for them. The Railboard seems like the culmination of this vision and is wonderful. I have no interest in it, I only want 12 strings.

I also prefer the short scale of the SG12. It's the scale length of the guitars I played for a long time. Of course I could adapt to a longer scale, but I don't want to. I don't have enough time per week, or enough time left on this earth. The SG12 felt "right" the first moment I held it. I think the new design Emmett is working on with Bob C. that is three frets longer than the SG would work too. I'll get one of the first batch of those.

A testament of the value of a new thing is how it can be adapted for uses that were not in the inventor's mind. 12 strings and a shorter scale length have created new possibilities. For me it's the best Chapman Stick. It's not what Emmett thought of at first, but it's perfect.

Thanks for reading this far,

-Eric