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New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
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Tatsu
Master Contributor
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:35 am Posts: 1210 Location: Indonesia
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New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
All of the following is based on the ACT Creativity Method mentioned in the other thread. I'm interested in other people's ideas in how to accomplish these objectives not just my own. I know it might be a lot to read through and in the end you might be too tired to post but I hope you make it through and that you post something in response. I always try to make it worth your time. It's only about 6 pages worth of a Word document. I've created an image chart for some of these ideas which is in jpg format I'll post later.
Objectives:
Play fast lines. Play complex lines. Play pantonal/atonal lines. Play long lines. Play easy lines. Be distinctive.
When Ford built the first Model T there were already better, more luxurious cars available on the market but they were hard to make and slow to produce, as well as being so expensive only the wealthy could buy them. Ford produced simple cars easily, quickly and cheaply for the working class. That’s what I’m aiming for with my “jazz,” although I can also see rock and heavy metal musicians resorting to these ideas too.
Fact Finding:
On the stick, scalar runs tend to be fast but are too pedestrian and run out of room at the end of a melodic line played straight across the strings because there are only 5 or 6 strings.
Although playing the “wrong” scale can make things interesting, bitonality isn’t what we’re after.
Also, playing shapes, letters and numbers has many distant leaps and often involves skipping more than one or two strings. This really throws a wrench into one’s speed.
If I try to use a small group of simple motives, there’s not enough complexity and because of the fret spacing on the stick, I’m mostly forced to move primarily by half step if I want to play a long line. Moving by whole steps causes me to climb up a string quickly.
Although diagonal is possible, simple trichords take up two or three strings already, so if on a 1O string stick, you can only move diagonally 2 or three times with many of the motives which puts a break on the speed you would have had if you were allowed to mindlessly continue in the same direction for a while. I think this is another secret to speed.
If you move by 4ths straight across the strings your first finger knows where it’s going for the next 4 or five moves on normal “3-notes per string” scales. It’s the same for moving laterally by half step. You’re never searching for where to put your finger. You already know. This is where some of DiMeola’s speed comes from when he’s looking for something else to do besides running up the scale when he’s run out of strings. He continues moving the last 3 notes on the final string laterally several times in a side slipping situation until he comes back in key.
Another factor for speed in Holdsworth’s case is that he can see the whole scale all over the fretboard in his mind.
Problem Finding; The problem with seeing the whole fretboard in your mind is that it’s difficult to memorize so many complex scales. Even after I know how to play the scales in every position, I have no facility in walking through the scale except in ways that go up and down which is truly pointless for this kind of music.
Thinking about the problem in terms of jazz and jazz fusion can also be misleading and it might be better to look at it from the perspective of modernist “classical” music or a combination of jazz and classical modernism.
One solution might be to use symmetrical scales that are easy to memorize. The whole tone and whole-half come to mind. A problem with this is that their structures are very repetitive and too simple.
A problem with sideslipping is that it gets boring quickly preventing you from doing it for very long.
On the stick, legato is not so easy when descending scales using pull offs. It’s better to play most everything detache’ where the finger’s attack instigates the energy for the note being played and not the vibration of the string from the attack of the previous note passed through a pull off.
Another problem is playing scale-like patterns but which are not normal scales. All those altered, added-note scales are difficult to memorize.
When I play motivically, if I repeat the first motive transposed, then repeat the second motive played backwards, that seems to help the desired complexity but turns me into fumble fingers.
Yet another problem is when arbitrarily imposing string skipping to one note in a three note pattern [normally on one string], it often seems like a boring note.
Although moving laterally by half-step is somewhat effective, too much of that gets boring. Also, moving laterally by whole-step is significantly more cumbersome than by half-step. Having to place motives even on a rudimentary scale like the half-whole would require significant practice.
Playing three note scale patterns twice on one string a half-step above or below the second time then continuing across the strings or diagonally also slows me down a bit and sounds like it needs string skipping on some notes to keep it interesting.
After playing a motive with a lower left hand corner and wanting another with a lower left hand corner so my first finger can continue on the same string in the same direction with the same finger but drawing a blank on the fly, I have to resort to one with an upper left hand corner or use a different finger.
Motives that start and end on the same finger force me to move by half-step in the direction I’m going by sliding with the finger I ended with to start the next motive. That’s O.K if I’d planned to do that but freaks me out if none of the previous motives were using that as the unconscious default.
We’ve talked about what’s blocking us from playing like Trane and Holdsworth. Now what are we going to do about it? Build a plan of action!
Possible Solutions: One possible solution for speed might be to move the same motive intervals of half-step, whole-step, 4ths, or diagonally but I think you could only repeat the same motive a maximum of 3 or 4 times in this music.
Maybe another solution for speed might be to move laterally by half step 3 or 4 times, then continue to move laterally with whole steps in order to insert more variety into the lateral motion of motives.
Concerning ease of memorization; Recently in my second “1O Ways to Play ii V I’s” post, among my “Defy Expectations” scale, I discovered symmetrical patterns that have more complexity than the whole tone scale and the whole-half scale. The most complex ones I discovered based on 3 notes per string are where the whole-step half-step pattern moves to the next string but back a half step diagonally then stepping back a half step again on the next string to play a whole-step whole-step pattern. Then the pattern on those three strings repeats indefinitely. Another symmetrical fingering just replaces the whole-step whole-step pattern with the min3rd half-step pattern. There were also symmetrical 4 finger ideas that would be easy to memorize as well.
Although you have to stretch really far, one thing that has always sounded good to me is 3 note per string pentatonics.
One suggestion was to break at least 3 rules to innovate. What are the rules of jazz?
The format is head then soloists; bandleader usually the pianist, the horn 1, horn 2 etc… There’s no reason you couldn’t start with a solo and play the head afterwards.
The form is mostly AABA so maybe you could have AABBA, AABAA. The rhythm is usually in 4/4 with either swung or straight eighths and 8 bar sections, so try 4/4 where the bass walks in ¾. Or ¾ where the bass walks in 4/4.
You could create differing section lengths too. Rhythm is evenly paced in jazz so maybe you could play colla voce, ritardando, or accelerando.
Maybe the turn around at the end of the head resolves to the tonic a half-step away from the tonic you started in.
Jazz tends to be stylistically similar throughout so maybe you could switch to latin, techno, or rap on one or two passes.
Other rules are that you’re supposed to know are how to follow guide tones, and that you have to play the right scale, or that great players play a different scale to fit over every chord. You should place non chord tones off the beat. It’s good to alternate between tension and resolution so bars 2 and 4 get outside playing, also the soloist alternates anticipations and suspensions with playing the chord tones on the beat. So what if the rules you broke were;
to forget about guide tones, forget about playing the right scale, don’t try to fit scales to every chord don’t care if non-chord tones exist off or on the beat, disregard alternating tension and resolution.
What rules justify these things?
One issue I know about is that when you play quartals or non-3rd chords, there’s no longer gravity to target the third of the chord. It sounds fine if you never play any guide tones [even the bass player] because the notes that ARE sounding in the chord replace the 3rd as gravitational centers especially in non-3rd chords.
Another thing I’ve come across is that any lick you might play that is mostly in a certain key can sound good over ANY chord no matter what key, depending on how you treat it. Resolution of the alien key is sometimes desirable but not required either, depending on the context.
The twelve tonalists often chose chords [made of trichords that were neither major nor minor nor diminished] and progressions that were indeterminate so it didn’t matter what you played over the top of them [although they were careful to avoid the normal no-no’s such as parallel 5ths etc... and discovered that the tritone was the most consonant interval in this context.]
Plan of Action;
Implement the plan in baby steps.
Practice playing 3-note-per-string ideas twice on one string [either normal major/minor forms or 3-note-per-string pentatonics] where we move up [or down] a half step for the second iteration before moving to the next string so that we can cram more in as we play straight across the strings, preventing us from running out of room too early. The same can be done for moving diagonally. Incorporate string skipping as this gets boring after a few iterations.
If doing string skipping, only skip to the adjacent string and no further for economy, and only skip the same finger as you move across or down the strings to reduce the cognitive load.
If moving motives laterally, move three or four times by half-step and three or four times by whole step using different motives to insert variety and to reduce the cognitive load of having to remember how an augmented scale is supposed to be played on one string for example.
Trichords, shapes, letters, and numbers that occupy more than one string will mostly be played laterally in order to have enough room to move in a single direction for long enough.
After traversing straight across all the strings and reaching the edge of the fingerboard, continue moving laterally to create longer lines but in moderation aka only repeatedly transpose a motive on one string 3 or 4 times.
When playing three notes per string fingerings from string to string in sequence, preference is given to symmetrical patterns that are easy to memorize yet which defy listener expectations but which are not as simple as merely the whole tone or the half-whole scale. This may also include 3-note-per-string pentatonics moving straight across or diagonally.
Play most everything detache’.
Previously I had said that when I play motivically, if I repeat the first motive transposed, then repeat the second motive played backwards, [a a’ b b’] that seems to help the desired complexity but turns me into fumble fingers. So I’m going to play a a’ b c instead of playing motives backwards if I’m trying to go fast so that the first finger [or whichever finger] is always reaching for the exact same interval [usually half step if lateral and 4th if across the strings].
Occasionally repeat the same motive three or four times to help speed and reduce cognitive load.
Don’t follow guide tones.
Don’t intentionally play in a particular key.
Play trichords, non-3rd chords, quartal and quintal voicings that avoid functional progressions.
Only play diagonally or straight across the strings with motives which are all on one string although you may play twice on one string or assign string skipping to one of the fingers.
When choosing to play motivically, prefer trichords conducive to fast, linear playing [aka minimize string skipping.]
Start with dissonance and proceed to greater dissonance gradually over the whole solo or tune.
Group motives into those that only need one string, those that need two, those that need 3 etc…
Also group motives primarily into those that use three notes and those that use 4 although less and more are possible.
Group motives into those that can be played starting from the lower right hand corner, upper left hand corner, upper right hand corner, lower right hand corner.
Identify motives that make you end on the same finger they started on, and control their use.
Continue in even eighths or eighth note triplets.
Use "quadrachords" to play straight eighths.
Use trichord motives to play eighth note triplets.
It's possible to turn trichords into "quadrachords" by repeating a note. This adds to the variety of motives if inserted into normal quadrachord playing.
You can also create quadrachords by ADDING a note on the fly to trichords so you don't have to study the humungus number of permutations.
_________________ www.soundclick.com/gongchime
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:35 am |
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Tatsu
Master Contributor
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:35 am Posts: 1210 Location: Indonesia
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
Forgot to mention that all of these ideas need to be tested. Anyway, here's the chart I promised. You've seen my charts of motives before but this one is fairly definitive I think if you're going for patterns which avoid known structures. On the Javier website concerning Coltrane's 3 Tonic system, his lessons blog shows using pentatonics and major tetrachords on the steps of the scale etc... He might be sharing that because those are the ones that are the most pedantic so he's in no danger of anyone stealing his REAL ideas by sharing those.
So about this chart. It's divided into four note ideas on the top and trichords on the bottom. It's further divided by motives that have a lower left, upper left, upper right and lower right. You can find out which of the four divisions is which by looking for the square in each one that has an asterisk. Then look for which corner of the square is circled.
Motives are further grouped into how many strings are needed to play them; 1,2,3,or 4.
Some are based on trichords, some on non-traditional tetrachords, some on non-traditional pentatonics, and some on non-traditional arpeggios.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
_________________ www.soundclick.com/gongchime
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:23 pm |
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stickyfingers
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:16 pm Posts: 772
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
Interesting concepts and a lot of variables.Excellent concepts, thanks for your time also Greg.
_________________ Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself. Miles Davis.
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:11 pm |
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Tatsu
Master Contributor
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:35 am Posts: 1210 Location: Indonesia
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
Thanks. You're very welcome for my time. I mostly make all these posts because I remember how hard won my experience was when trying to get access to what I wanted to learn. The music store down the street didn't have a guitar teacher that knew modernism or post-bop. The university I went to for undergraduate work also wasn't terribly interested in modernism or post-bop or knowledgeable about them regardless. It took me a long time to figure a lot of things out. Waaay too long. What would make me happy is if there's a young person out there who passionately wants to be able to do those kinds of things on stick but doesn't have the money to pay for a post-bop piano teacher who might not even explain how to do what they do because its a stickist that shows up and not a pianist. I'm not a post-bop piano teacher either but I do my research and bring it all to one place on a regular basis so maybe that stuff naturally will start to sink in because it's always around. Hopefully they're able to approximate what they want to do right away instead of bouncing around till they're fifty.
btw I might not be around as much in the near future because in about ten days my family is moving to Singapore where I will be a working stiff again for about 3 years until I can get permanent resident status on my Singapore visa so that my daughter can study in the third best educational system in the world. Three years later I might be able to be as active but the board will see a lot less of me for quite a while.
_________________ www.soundclick.com/gongchime
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:26 pm |
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rodan07
Resident Contributor
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:59 pm Posts: 411
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
Well, I could examine everything in your post, in about four years But let me tackle one tiny detail: Quote: On the stick, legato is not so easy when descending scales using pull offs. It’s better to play most everything detache’ where the finger’s attack instigates the energy for the note being played and not the vibration of the string from the attack of the previous note passed through a pull off. Detache, as you put it, works because you can play ascending or descending scales with the same kind of attack. And, keeping the listener in mind, it sets them up for some subsequent legato play, where you can 1) play across strings and blend the tones together or 2) just play as legato as possible on your following passage. R
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:04 am |
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Tatsu
Master Contributor
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:35 am Posts: 1210 Location: Indonesia
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
I think both Emmett and Greg Howard figured that out early on because evenness of tone is important especially on recordings and yeah a legato thing thrown in adds variety.
btw my post basically says;
1 Try playing 3-notes-per-string twice on one string then continue playing across all the strings in a similar manner. It can be the same shape shifted up or down a half step.
2 If skipping only skip to the neghboring string and only skip with the same finger as you go across all the strings.
3 Try moving motives laterally by half-step a few times, then move by whole-step a few times.
4 Motives that need 3 or more strings to play them should mostly be moved laterally.
5 After moving across the strings, continue laterally.
6 Predispose your playing to symmetrical fingerings but not boringly simple ones like the whole tone or half-whole.
7 If playing diagonally, only use a motive that has all the notes on one string [although you can employ string skipping to the next string with one note of the shape]
There's one I left out and that's; fill in the notes you passed over on one string before moving on. That may also involve moving the first finger depending on how many more notes you need. You can also add up to 4 notes around larger motive shapes before continuing.
_________________ www.soundclick.com/gongchime
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:15 am |
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stickyfingers
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:16 pm Posts: 772
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
HaHa, I know what you mean with the age learning thing,young folks should really adhere to a solid teaching if they can get it here,I'm way beyond the 50 mark but the stick challenges for me make it interesting and kind of fun. I hope you enjoy Singapore i was there in the early 70's on a military R&R.I have family in the Philippines and travel there at times.
_________________ Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself. Miles Davis.
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:34 pm |
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Tatsu
Master Contributor
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:35 am Posts: 1210 Location: Indonesia
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Re: New Techniques for Magical Enchantment
Hmmm...military man. The Philippines has great incentives for those who want to retire in South East Asia compared to Indonesia, Australia, NewZealand, Thailand etc.. but they get all those hurricanes...which is why they offer so many incentives to make people want to retire there. Even with such a generous offer I still don't want to retire there.
_________________ www.soundclick.com/gongchime
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:47 pm |
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