I'm curious as to the thought process of our little community so having said that it's time for a poll. As a teacher or student, which do you think is more important to begin your studies in music? Feel free to elaborate or discuss at your discretion.

Tritone



Edit: Was asking mainly in the realm of stringed instruments but the principle should for the most part be universal. So feel free to specify or differentiate as you feel necessary.

I'm troubled by the either or in the two choices. In all my guitar classes, chords and scales were presented together in order to show the relationships between scales and chord formation. Granted to a beginner seeing both at the same time may be abstract (it was for me at first) but that's where the instructor needs to show, and play, the relationships for the students right away. For that reason, I believe a third choice of "Both" should be added.

I just voted for "chords". Reason: you use chords to understand/apply scales. Not so much the other way around. Of course they both have to be "learned" at the same time, but I definitely think that chords is the most rewarding way in.

I'd say "Both." I don't agree that one necessarily must follow the other from a pedagogical standpoint. Scales certainly can be used to understand/apply chords. One (modern) way to conceptualize the chords in a major key is to build them in thirds above the scale degrees of a major scale. Harmonizing an existing melody at sight is also an example of applying harmony to what is essentially a scale that is ordered in such a way as to imply a harmonic succession.

Of course this could get into the age old debate about which came first, melody or harmony.

It's hard to escape the power of harmony, that is the vertical stacking of tones, in western music. But I think it's equally hard not to address melody since music is an inherently temporal art and so the linear succession of pitch is an inescapable aspect that has traditionally been cataloged and conceptualized in the form of scales. At its most basic a scale is an ordered pitch collection. It's just a way to organize a collection of pitches so we can understand it and the relationships that exist within it.

And then of course when you get into jazz theory chords and scales become virtually indistinguishable.

Ok you asked.

Answer: neither really. Music is aural communication. You should start by learning songs if you want to study western music.

Scales are the most misused and misunderstood element of theoretical musical understanding.

Western music is based upon tonality, melody and harmony. You should know a dozen songs based in a tonality before ever being taught the artificial construct of it's "scale".

Learn melodies, not scales. This might people off but it's based on research.

Have you ever heard someone improvise over chords using "chord scale" when they have no
repertoire of melodies? They are told to jumble up "these" notes.

It sounds like someone speaking random words and hoping to compose a basic sentence.

Songs, repertoire, melodies, Tonal ear training (learning the sound of chord tones, starting with Tonic and Dominant) Rhythmic ear training. These should all be stressed before "theoretical understanding" which includes scales.

Chords should be learned aurally not mechanically.

Just my two cents.

Brett

Yeah, nothing worse than hearing someone solo or "improvise" going straight up and down the scale as fast as they can muster... There's plenty of guitarists out there that hang out in music stores and rip up and down the scales at blazing speed, but have no concept of melody or musicality.

Interesting thread. It is about music, but not musical.
Given Tritone's history in "our little community", I would be curious to hear some music produced by Tritone, if for no other reason than to give perspective the theoretical question he poses.

While I wouldn't disagree with the content of your post I must point out that it ultimately dodges the specific question that was asked. Your answer is more akin to what I would have said had the question been, "How do you teach music?"

That said, there are some instrumental studies professors at my school who swear by this approach in their studios. The trombone professor in particular has his students play simple melodies in different keys instead of the usual scales in different keys. I think it's a pretty effective method and would like to see more instructors move in that direction.

I teach aural skills at the university and of course in those classes hearing and singing is what it's all about. Of course the aural skills courses run concurrent with their theory component courses. Learning both the aural and theoretical aspects is essential to true mastery. I can test a student as to whether they can identify a chord by singing it back to me, and it's important to do so, but it's also important that they understand the functions of chords related in a diatonic system, and in order to test that we have to have the student write down the theoretical labels of the chords they're hearing to demonstrate their understanding.



I haven't investigated the hard research in this area on my own but I'm curious which studies you might be referring to and if you could share them (I'm thinking something from the Journal of Music Theory Pedagogy perhaps?). Thanks.

Dave

Utterly pointless, and not germane to the topic at all.

Good question! I would say, without a doubt, chords. Played sequentially, using that other important musical component – dynamics - a series of chords can include everything that makes music, well, music. Harmony, melody, rhythm, scalar passing tones, etc. can all be heard simply by playing a series of chords, using dynamics to bring different notes to the fore as you play. The same cannot be said, obviously, of playing scales alone. You can, in fact, play a melody (or a scale) with chords. It is done by keyboardists and guitarists all the time. Even wind instrumentalists and vocalists benefit greatly from a working knowledge of chordal harmony. You can generally tell the horn players who know and understand chordal structure, as opposed to those whose first priority is always scales.

Hi Brett,

Great answer. I would add that melodies teach us scales, harmony and rhythm without our even knowing we are learning any of these things, specifically.

Even "Do Re Mi" doesn't just stay in the same scale.

A lot of musicians say "I can't sing" (and "I can't dance").

Anyone can sing a rhythm.

Be a mensch.

Sing! (and dance!)