Not sure if this post is serious or a spam post that kind of fits the topic by coincidence?

Anyway, I suggest positioning the stomach in a way that optimizes the playing angle for your Stick exercise. I imagine having a big stomach would be good because I'm personally a bit annoyed by the stick being so close to the body, especially at the lower notes where it is just one decimeter from your eyes and that makes it hard to see the frets. Not having a solid stomach to place the Stick on I use to bend slightly forward, when exercising, to let it hang out from the body a bit so my hands can better reach the fretboard, especially the left hand. Here it would be useful with fret markings also on the back side of the neck. I don't think SE has offered that before? Simple small dots on the right side of the back of the neck would be rad.

Hi Per,

I've found the opposite of your suggestion works best

The playing angle that's shown in the video below gives you the best access for your left hand, with no wrist bending, and you can see the instrument really well (so no need for any reference points on the back of the instrument):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TZi0qKzKCM[/youtube]

RSS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TZi0qKzKCM

non-angled belthook?
If you do have a big stomach, consider asking Emmett to alter your belt hook angle so that the instrument is parallel to the front of your torso. You'll still be able to see the instrument because, as you mentioned, it is pushed out in front of you, and taking the angle out makes it easier to place your thumbs behind the board, particularly the right thumb.

But you don't have to worry about that at all, you Svelte Swede, just check out the video above at 10:50 for a synopsis of optimal positioning for sustained chords and basslines.

If you want the instrument higher up, don't forget that you can adjust the belthook. There are four positions on it, and I almost always recommend the 2nd highest position, unless someone is not very tall.

This picture shows the lowest position of the four:

Cool, Greg. Maybe I should try a non-angled belthook then. Can one order that as a replacement to fit in by yourself? The first modification I made to my Grand as I got it was to move the belthook for the highest playing position, just like in this example video. Actually it is the angle that puts strain on the left hand. You need to learn the frets without looking at the board anyway so why not duplicate the fret markers on the back side?

With my guitars I always modify the way they hang to get the fretboard away from me in order to make way for better left hand access. If no markers on the backside of the neck I paint them in there. I suspect the Stick could be a bit more ergonomic with less belthook angle.

Awaiting a SG12 and it will be interesting to find out the optimal playing position for that instrument.

Hi Per, point by point:


Again I find the opposite is true. If you put your whole thumb back behind the neck, then yes the angle doesn't help, but putting your thumb back behind the neck limits your hand's access over the board. The angle, in addition to making the fretboard more visible, lets you keep you arm in a more ergonomic position, not less ergonomic, but again, you have to let your hand open up over the board.


The positioning has more to do with freedom of movement for the hand. It's a completely different idea than the kind of position-based typing motion that is normally used to fret notes. If the instrument is forward, it's impossible to utilize hand motion because the wrist is bent, and you basically have to use a typing motion.

I play much of the time without looking, but I'm only able to do this (I think) because my hands know the board and can freely transition from one position to the next. And again, this comes from using hand motion as the driving force in technique, for every note.



Everyone's body is different, of course. The classic problem with guitar and bass of tendonitis from bending the wrist can be completely avoided, again, if you allow the hands to open up, which is again all about positioning.

If you have Emmet's linear inlays on your instrument, then you can readily see them from the side:



If you don't want to keep the instrument in a more vertical position, leaning back toward your shoulder, then you could might want a non-angled belthook. But I think this positioning really limits the possibilities for what your left hand can do in terms of sustaining notes while others are activated. If you want a sound that is fuller, like the sound of ringing strings on a guitar or a sustaining piano, the more vertical positioning really makes this possible.

I'm clearly not the only person who takes advantage of this approach. Bob's and Rob's playing are also great examples of this sound. Big, simultaneous left-hand polyphony. Much more practical with the more vertical positioning.

Well, with my Grand I took advance of an order cancellation to get the Stick ASAP and this means it has black markers on dark bamboo. Not the most visual combination. My upcoming SG12 I have ordered smashing red with turquise inlays so I guess this will be easier to navigate with quick glances, even from behind.

Your point about hand movement is totally accurate. I have arrived at the same conclusion lately by learning the instrument as a beginner. Especially when playing fast percussive two hand stuff on the bass side I'm finding that I need to rest the Stick on my left shoulder to keep up the rhythmic precision. But for "wishy-wooshy" light cross hand arpeggio tapping I still find it more comfortable to let it hang out a bit.

So you're saying non angled belthook won't work well for vertical playing position? Hm... I have to experiment a bit with that. I gravitated towards the vertical playing after the first weeks of practicing and will stay with it.

Yes, I think unless you have a big stomach, then the angled belt hook actually allows you to keep your left arm in the most flexible position. Also, if you are playing uncrossed and you want to bass your playing on conventional typing-style fretting, then taking the angle out might also be beneficial, especially if you are using a low angle on the neck.

Taking the angle out will encourage you to pull your left arm in against your body to compensate.

I really like the angled belt hook. I think it's a key element to being able to position the left hand to be able to play it's bass+ role in the most effective way.

Seeing the board
I wanted to also respond to a point you made earlier about knowing the fretboard. I agree that it's really useful to know the board by feel. In this case you wouldn't need the marks on the rear of the instrument either

But more seriously, the Stick is a big surface, with very little tactile feedback to guide you (except for string thickness and fret spacing). It can be helpful to be able to see where you are, and where you want to go, especially when improvising, and this comes from a guy who plays a lot of the time with my eyes closed). And it's especially helpful when you make a mistake and need to get back on track.

Tactile reference points only help you when you are touching them, so it's good to have both tactile and visual.

I like the fusion of visual geometry on a neutral tuning with free-flowing physical movement.

It really is like dancing hands.

Sorry for posting so much, but I just discovered my holy grail for Stick positioning: Tighten The Strap!

My issues have all been related to the fact that I'm too small for the default Stick strap. And I didn't know! For the last (first too, since I'm a beginner) six months I have been using the strap at the tightest hole, but today I got curious and experimented with adding two even tighter holes to the strap and guess what - the difference is huge! I feel like I'm twice as good at playing now when the strap keeps the Stick almost fixed by my left shoulder. I realize I never found the best Stick position before because the strap was still too wide for me. I really want to recommend beginners to go with the absolutely tightest strap possible! I instantly got that well known fuzzy feeling of the instrument being a part of my body and so easy to play. Best thing ever... now off to play....

Amen

Emmett is not dogmatic about things, so he likes to let people find a position that's comfortable for them. Low angles, high angles. From his perspective as a designer it's good to be as flexible as possible, and encourage experimentation.

But I'm more dogmatic about ergonomics, and most of my students have had the same experience as you. Get the instrument up in side the shoulder joint for freedom of left arm movement with a relaxed wrist and an open hand....

Absolutely, Per. I also found I had to add some tighter holes to keep the Stick well anchored in the vertical position where I want it.

Maybe it would be worth manufacturing the straps with some more holes?

Dan

yep...tightening of the strap made a big difference for me also. At first I was tightening it to the last hole but the drawback was getting my head and arm into the loop-synonymous to threading a needle , so I moved it back one.