Hi Varnon,

It's easier to play scale-oriented lines in 4ths than in 5ths.

If you think about a simple major scale, in 4ths you get 3 notes/string
while in 5ths it's 4 notes per string.

So if you want, you can play melodic and counterpoint lines in 4ths with a very fluid 3-finger technique that can easily transcend positions, or if you prefer, you can chose a 4-finger technique that's more position-oriented, and can also be very fast (as long as you don't have a lot of 4ths in the melody).

Tuning in 4ths makes this choice possible.

The other are where all 4ths isn't as string as 5ths is in two-handed play on the same string group. This is much easier in 5ths, because there's more room for each hand along each string.

One fundamental difference between fourths and fifths is that fourths players can easily learn to read the grand staff, the written language of western music, starting from day one.

This would seem to be a useful tool, with implications for the future of guitar music, and yet there is so little interest among stickists in developing this basic skill....


Mad Monk.

Yep. That whole tone is a real mind scrambler.

Implications for the future of guitar music...

You're batting a thousand Randy. Keep up the good work.

Tritone

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying it's not difficult to read polyphonic music in two different tunings simultaneously? I assure you, it is much, much easier to do in all fourths. Or maybe I misunderstood you...?




OK, maybe that one deserved an eye roll....
I know it is your self-appointed job to puncture our pretensions; but I really do believe that the new possibilities of tapping will lead to new music.


Mad Monk.

I'm sorry but I don't understand why? I can see why 4th or 5th tuning may affect your playing as you have to move your fingers, but not how it would affect reading. If a C# is written in the score you could simply play a C# on the Stick - no matter what tuning you are using. Doesn't learning a particular tuning mean learning what notes are played at different frets on different strings?

Eh.. or, maybe you are not talking about "sounding notes" (as the true vibration frequency)? Like for example some scores for wind instruments that may be "written for Bb tuned sax" etc. If so I must have missed that part of Stick notation. I thought all Stick players imagine the sounding notes played - but maybe some rather associate a note, like for example G#, with a certain point on the fretboard?

With fifths in the bass and fourths in the melody, you are actually using two tunings simultaneously. It's like holding a conversation in two languages--not impossible, but a lot more work.

After 12 years and a few thousand hours of trying to play polyphonic music in Classic tuning, I switched to mirrored fourths and the difference was dramatic. Having just one set of fingerings definitely improves my reading.



Mad Monk.

Okay, its not about the symmetry, it is about the movement distance in a scale.
That makes a bit more sense.

I'm really looking into getting a stick, or rather trying to see if I finally have the funds for one.
I'm really torn between the mirrored 4ths and the 4ths/5ths tunings.

I love the idea of complete symmetry between the hands, as far as melodic progressions go.
But on the other hand the chordal symmetry on the 4ths/5ths tuning is also very interesting.

I am really more into the concepts of counter point than chords, although I play a bit of both on keyboard.
Mirrored 4ths seems really logical for this, but I have to wonder if just the difference between the melodic movements on 4ths/5ths tunings would help generate more interesting music, as you have to play a bit differently with each hand.

I've also heard that 10 strings are not recommended for mirrored 4ths tunings, is this just because of the range overlap?

If I'm into mirrored 4ths, its a choice between the grand and the SG12. To me, the purpose of the SG12 only seems to be a compromise between the slightly larger range of the grand, and the slightly cheaper price of the SG12. I can't really see any other reason to get an SG12, other than price, and possible the desire for a second stick with a different setup. Can someone comment on that?

As a keyboard player, I like the idea of an enormous range, but the range offered by the SG12 is really only slightly smaller than the range I tend to use on keyboard. I really haven't heard any SG12 compositions where I thought to myself, there need to be a few lower (or higher) pitched notes.

And as always, thanks for the thoughts everyone. The community here really helps sell the stick.

--The SG is lighter and so is easier to play for extended periods.
--The instrument is worn higher up on the player's body and this makes the highest melody pitches easier to play with good posture, for me anyway.
--The "piano" tuning goes a m3 higher on the melody side; spacing between frets is slightly less cramped at a given high note.
--It is a shorter-scale instrument which accordingly sounds a bit better in the higher register, while the Grand sounds better on the low end.

I spent years with the Grand, hunched over and struggling to play the higher passages. The SG is a much better fit, physically, for playing in the higher register.


Mad Monk.

Thank you, Mad Monk, for those SG12 points. Very interesting!

I'd like to add that the shorter scale also makes the phase phenomenon of the pickups more prominent as your tapping moves up or down the neck, i.e. the electric sound does change more related to what fret you are playing at. Maybe this is only notable with the PASV4?

I guess that you don't have any phase phenomenon with a single pickup. Am I right?


Daniel.