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New player, advice needed
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Powagoat
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:21 pm Posts: 305 Location: Massachusetts
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
It's because of the human nervous system. If you use 2 fingers to play repeated notes on the same string you can have the next finger moving on its way to strike the string while your other finger is beginning to lift. Once you get good you can time it so that there's almost no delay between them.
If you try to use the same finger you need your finger to lift off the string, reverse direction, and come back down. All of that takes physics /momentum and nervous system messages time.
The Stick can't sustain a note once you lift your finger the way a piano can when you strike a key so there's a more noticeable gap.
_________________ #6054 Bamboo SG12, ACTV-2, mirrored 4ths piano #5518 Rosewood 10 String Grand, PASV4, MR
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Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:03 pm |
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BSharp
Master Contributor
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:45 am Posts: 1183
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
Legato with adjacent fingers. Staccato with the same finger, and of course you have to use same fingers for repeating chords on the melody strings. This applies to repeating the same melody note or another note on the same fret, either up or down a 4th or b7th.
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Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:44 pm |
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paigan0
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
BSharp wrote: Legato with adjacent fingers. Staccato with the same finger [bold added], and of course you have to use same fingers for repeating chords on the melody strings. This applies to repeating the same melody note or another note on the same fret, either up or down a 4th or b7th. Powagoat wrote: It's because of the human nervous system. If you use 2 fingers to play repeated notes on the same string you can have the next finger moving on its way to strike the string while your other finger is beginning to lift. Once you get good you can time it so that there's almost no delay between them.
If you try to use the same finger you need your finger to lift off the string, reverse direction, and come back down. All of that takes physics /momentum and nervous system messages time.
The Stick can't sustain a note once you lift your finger the way a piano can when you strike a key so there's a more noticeable gap [bold added]. Ah, I see the point that you both are making: it's the difference between legato or staccato. Which I both get and agree with. If I'm riding a single note and want it to sound legato, I will switch fingers and rock back between two fingers. But, if I'm going with staccato, especially in the bass, I use the same finger. I was thinking there was some larger or grander or more mystical thing about more power with more fingers, and also some "rule" about playing with multiple fingers that I didn't get, and I completely overlooked what I already intuitively grokked: it's about legato playing. That's why I appreciate Emmett's fuller explanation of legato versus staccato, and pointing out where and WHY you'd use one or the other, and not just a blanket absolution rule against every using the same finger on the same note (which is pretty much what I was hearing from Stickrad.) "Know Thyself, and Plan Ye around Thy Limitations" is Sink's Law #3, and I know that I do not respond well to a blanket rule to not play a certain way. I warned you I can be contrary, when I don't mean to. (Hey, I know that about myself, and I feel y'all's pain, 'cause I got to live with me too!) So, I thought I'd (hopefully) politely ask for a more fuller explanation. I appreciate that immensely! Thanks, Powagoat and Emmett, for the fuller explanations. [In Steve's head] "What do you mean you can't ever use just one finger on a note! I do it all the time. Not ALL the time, but a lot when you're digging in on a bass note and you want that thing to pop--why would you alternate fingers on that? Maybe I suck. Do I suck? Am I missing something? Did I leave the garage door open when I left for work this morning? And how far am I going to take this internal monologue shtick?] TLDR: Legato versus staccato. I totally get it; thanks so much!
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:08 pm |
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Powagoat
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:21 pm Posts: 305 Location: Massachusetts
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
I'd add that it's about control. You can still play staccato with 2 fingers, but when you use 2 fingers you're making the choice of how you want to sound. With 1 finger you will always be limited by physics and the nervous system. (For example, what if you want to play staccato but a little less so than you're able to on one finger?)
_________________ #6054 Bamboo SG12, ACTV-2, mirrored 4ths piano #5518 Rosewood 10 String Grand, PASV4, MR
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Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:27 pm |
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earthgene
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:28 pm Posts: 4108
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
I love a good tuning post... ![Image](https://media1.tenor.com/images/f7e5edd47ceb9ca70c19da315fa21ccd/tenor.gif)
_________________ Gene Perry http://www.geneperry.com http://www.freehandsacademy.com
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Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:41 pm |
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Powagoat
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:21 pm Posts: 305 Location: Massachusetts
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
Tuning post?
_________________ #6054 Bamboo SG12, ACTV-2, mirrored 4ths piano #5518 Rosewood 10 String Grand, PASV4, MR
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Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:46 pm |
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Stickrad
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Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:54 pm Posts: 1645 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, AU
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
Hey Stephen!
I know I come across strong with my ideas from time to time and your post is totally taken in the spirit that it's given, dear bruv.
So good to hear from Emmett, hey?! When he said repeated notes within a chord and staccato that made perfect sense.
I guess I could've made my comments clearer by saying almost all my single line playing is without repeated notes with the same finger. It's just my preference and everyone has their own focus, I'm just passionate about these things. When I first started playing I wanted to remove myself as far away as possible from that typewriter/computer game sound. ...What Powagoat said about tone....
Trying not to sound like a knob, but perhaps it's just takes time for the collective to develop..... There doesn't seem to be as many stickists playing that way these days. Ten years ago I remember hearing that a lot.
Hey, Factorplayer. The single biggest improvement I've made in getting a better sound with descending lines is playing what Greg calls "up fret - down fret". Down fret in this context would have you bringing the weight of the hand into each note of any given descending line.
_________________ Stickrad
https://www.facebook.com/stickradmusic/ https://www.facebook.com/southernstickevents/
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Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:20 am |
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Amberhawk
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 1:48 pm Posts: 57
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
This discussion reminds me alot of alternate picking vs direct picking on guitar. I asked I highly respected pro guitar player about it once, and he said that there is no "correct way" only the sound you want to make. If you listen carefully the two styles sound different, even if you have a highly skilled player able to play the same line perfectly with both methods.
_________________ Railboard #7205 MR
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Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:36 am |
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Stickrad
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Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:54 pm Posts: 1645 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, AU
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
Amberhawk wrote: This discussion reminds me alot of alternate picking vs direct picking on guitar. I asked I highly respected pro guitar player about it once, and he said that there is no "correct way" only the sound you want to make. If you listen carefully the two styles sound different, even if you have a highly skilled player able to play the same line perfectly with both methods. Kool. Trying to get in on Gene's game here..... How do you add gifs....? ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
_________________ Stickrad
https://www.facebook.com/stickradmusic/ https://www.facebook.com/southernstickevents/
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Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:42 am |
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earthgene
Site Donor
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:28 pm Posts: 4108
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![Post Post](./styles/serenitydarkblue/imageset/icon_topic_latest.gif) Re: New player, advice needed
Use the IMG feature. I generally do a search and the find the specific URL of an animated gif
Right click on and open in new tab, copy that URL and paste in between IMG tag. After that, preview it to ensure it works. =)
_________________ Gene Perry http://www.geneperry.com http://www.freehandsacademy.com
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Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:36 pm |
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