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 Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths? 
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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
Good thread, thanks Greg and Claire for some great information!

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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
You can think of StaffTab the same way you might think of finger markings on a piano chart. They're generally put there by the publisher. Some publisher's editions are better than others. Some publishers are considered more advanced and will leave the fingerings off operating under the assumption that advanced players don't need it and might prefer something a little different. All of this, of course, has no bearing on the music notated on the grand staff. As Claire pointed out, the fingering notations (in the case of piano and Stick both) are tuning agnostic.

When I notate guitar music, I generally do the staff notation with nothing really guitar specific and then when I'm finished, let Finale automatically generate the tablature. The tuning needs to be set in order for me to do that though and the tuning is a property of the tab and not the grand staff as it has no meaning there.

If only generating StaffTab were that easy ;)

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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
gpoorman wrote:
You can think of StaffTab the same way you might think of finger markings on a piano chart. They're generally put there by the publisher. Some publisher's editions are better than others. Some publishers are considered more advanced and will leave the fingerings off operating under the assumption that advanced players don't need it and might prefer something a little different. All of this, of course, has no bearing on the music notated on the grand staff. As Claire pointed out, the fingering notations (in the case of piano and Stick both) are tuning agnostic.

When I notate guitar music, I generally do the staff notation with nothing really guitar specific and then when I'm finished, let Finale automatically generate the tablature. The tuning needs to be set in order for me to do that though and the tuning is a property of the tab and not the grand staff as it has no meaning there.

If only generating StaffTab were that easy ;)


For me, I don't want to see position markings or a 'tab' version on a score, especially if I have to read it down on the fly. Automatically generated "finale guitar tab" or even "guitar pro" is painful to look at, cluttered in my opinion. That's just me. Most people giving me scores don't play as well as I do ( other wise they would play it themselves) often times the arranger may not be able to play my instrument at all. Fingering is the player's choice, although I agree some markings may be useful. Also, not many guitarists can read (I read very well on guitar and bass) so I recognize that tablature might be a necessary option for a lot of people.

On Stick, I feel the same way. I don't want to see any unnessecary clutter - especially considering that I have to deal with two clefs, or at the very least a treble clef and some chord symbols above. I prefer to make my own markings, so any extra clutter is just that. I don't like geometry/chord grids or tabs at all, just give me the notes and I will find them, lol. The notes and my ears haha

I think that Stafftab as a learning tool is pretty ingenious for someone who is not familiar with notation and it's a great way for folks to mark up existing scores. As far as creating Stafftab, lol yeah that is a time consuming endeavour. For me, time is better spent just learning the language...

But I have a good friend locally who plays 7 string guitar ala Stanley Jordan, and he loves Stafftab, and is pretty much a tab-only player (plus ears)... It's why I posted this question.

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Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:12 am
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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
Greg and I created StaffTab to show specific arrangements of songs and to teach specific string tapping skills. You could call it cluttered but it's "packed" with six parameters of information per bar, including the standard pitch notation, time and duration, and expression, but also fingers, frets and strings.

Laborious to be sure, but you get the composer's or the arranger's or the instructor's complete intention of how to play it all on strings, where to place the hands and how to finger the notes in some advantageous way.

This aid to "free hands" might indeed tie your hands, or tie up your brain, definitely a limitation on musical freedom, then again, you could just read the standard notation. It's all there. Or you could just read the novel tablature, which shows how the writer played the song.

My "Free Hands" book was first printed in 1974 with all its pages filled with such tablature. Songs at the back of the book have the finger symbols and fret lines running along the five staff lines which represent the strings. Earlier in the '70s I mailed Stick lessons to our customers and called them "Tablets", which became the first chapters of my book.

I was intent on teaching the instrument and was at first the only one playing the method (hands from opposite sides with all fingers at right angles to the strings). I wanted to communicate how one could play the complete two-handed concept thru an actual song.

Now there are many Stick artists with surprisingly original styles and a myriad of amazing sub-techniques. Still, I think StaffTab is a useful tool in getting started with a specific song arrangement or a focused lesson.

One little liberty you have is in the right hand. You can move it up or down the fretboard by 5 frets ( a perfect 4th according to the inlaid dot or line pattern) and play the same StaffTab fingering transposed "vertically" across just one string.


Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
BSharp wrote:
Greg and I created StaffTab to show specific arrangements of songs and to teach specific string tapping skills. You could call it cluttered but it's "packed" with six parameters of information per bar, including the standard pitch notation, time and duration, and expression, but also fingers, frets and strings.

Laborious to be sure, but you get the composer's or the arranger's or the instructor's complete intention of how to play it all on strings, where to place the hands and how to finger the notes in some advantageous way.

This aid to "free hands" might indeed tie your hands, or tie up your brain, definitely a limitation on musical freedom, then again, you could just read the standard notation. It's all there. Or you could just read the novel tablature, which shows how the writer played the song.

My "Free Hands" book was first printed in 1974 with all its pages filled with such tablature. Songs at the back of the book have the finger symbols and fret lines running along the five staff lines which represent the strings. Earlier in the '70s I mailed Stick lessons to our customers and called them "Tablets", which became the first chapters of my book.

I was intent on teaching the instrument and was at first the only one playing the method (hands from opposite sides with all fingers at right angles to the strings). I wanted to communicate how one could play the complete two-handed concept thru an actual song.

Now there are many Stick artists with surprisingly original styles and a myriad of amazing sub-techniques. Still, I think StaffTab is a useful tool in getting started with a specific song arrangement or a focused lesson.

One little liberty you have is in the right hand. You can move it up or down the fretboard by 5 frets ( a perfect 4th according to the inlaid dot or line pattern) and play the same StaffTab fingering transposed "vertically" across just one string.


Well, I'm hoping nobody got offended. It's not really my bag, but I do recognize the intent and cleverness behind "stafftab". (I used the word 'ingenious" on an earlier post) Hopefully y'all can recognize that I'm not against it, I am just asking questions about the system. I posted this thread for a couple of friends who are looking for a notation solution close to TAB, but not TAB, I was thinking stafftab would be perfect for them. So, I have actually recommended it to a couple of folks One friend in particular likes Stanley Jordan a lot, plays guitar and is looking for a more efficient way to score his stuff out, as my method of "just scoring it in treble/bass clef" seems tedious to him...

When I said "cluttered" I was mostly referring to guitar tab, y'know, like in the guitar magazines. I ever really liked it (TAB), I much prefer a clean score, lead-sheet style. That's not to say that tabulature is a bad thing, it's just not for me. Same as Stafftab, the little numbers and all of those lines are kind of distracting, and so I prefer to just not use it, and I would like to just not even see it on the score as I can read the music much more efficiently without that information. Same with all of those guitar tab books you can buy; I'd love to have an option to buy those with no tablature in them whatsoever. Just my preference, that's all; everybody else in the world can love it, tab is just not for me.

I am quite surprised that not many people use Emmett's Modal tablature system; I personally find that to be an extremely effective tool for making notes about a melody and it's harmonic/melodic improvisational possibilities. But, that's just my opinion.

In stating this, I am a HUGE fan of the Free Hands book (I study it daily), and Emmett Chapman's playing even though I only have one CD and some youtube footage. I am pretty sure that although Stanley is awesome at what he does, his tuning in 4ths, extremely low action/instrument modification, and tapping style in general was most likely heavily influenced and at the very least inspired by Emmett's works. Kind of like all of those guys in the '80s on the shrapnel record label claiming to have never heard of Yngwie or Michael Angelo Batio or Uli Roth... and yet playing all of the same neoclassical harmonic minor runs and sweep arpeggio stuff to Iron Maiden-y sounding stuff. Kind of funny.


Peace...

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Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
Jayesskerr wrote:
Well, I'm hoping nobody got offended.

No at all. Like I said, piano publications of the same piece are all over the map on how much extra notation is devoted on how to play something. Players generally get to a point in their abilities though where they prefer the more "advanced" publications that essentially leave the additional markings off entirely.

As far as the composer's intent, I'm curious as to when fingering notations started showing up in piano scores and who put them there. Did Beethoven ever put fingering notations in his scores? Mozart? Bach? Gershwin?

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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
I recently recorded the audio for a video of a guy playing bach's chromatic fantasy and Fugue on a harpsichord. A top musician with years of experience. When he came to the studio for us to choose between the different takes, he forgot to bring his own score. Luckily I had it here also, so we ended up using mine. Funny thing is that mine had some different fingerings for some of the hardest parts than the ones he used and he was very impressed with them so asked me if he could copy the score I had. Bottom line is, all this kind of information is very useful because it shares somebody's own experience at doing something and may, therefore, save a lot of time in figuring out some things. Staff tab was very important for me at the beginning: it was a huge tool in learning how to approach a completely alien instrument. I don't use it regularly for there isn't anything written down on it for the pieces I'm working on but you can be sure I would, just to learn from someone else's approach.


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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
bachdois wrote:
I recently recorded the audio for a video of a guy playing bach's chromatic fantasy and Fugue on a harpsichord. A top musician with years of experience. When he came to the studio for us to choose between the different takes, he forgot to bring his own score. Luckily I had it here also, so we ended up using mine. Funny thing is that mine had some different fingerings for some of the hardest parts than the ones he used and he was very impressed with them so asked me if he could copy the score I had. Bottom line is, all this kind of information is very useful because it shares somebody's own experience at doing something and may, therefore, save a lot of time in figuring out some things. Staff tab was very important for me at the beginning: it was a huge tool in learning how to approach a completely alien instrument. I don't use it regularly for there isn't anything written down on it for the pieces I'm working on but you can be sure I would, just to learn from someone else's approach.


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True enough, I couldn't really wrap my mind around staff tab so it's probably why I suck haha

Rodrigo, do you play keyboard as well? If you can play Chromatic Fantasy there's some pretty decent chops there, man...

gpoorman wrote:
Jayesskerr wrote:
Well, I'm hoping nobody got offended.

No at all. Like I said, piano publications of the same piece are all over the map on how much extra notation is devoted on how to play something. Players generally get to a point in their abilities though where they prefer the more "advanced" publications that essentially leave the additional markings off entirely.

As far as the composer's intent, I'm curious as to when fingering notations started showing up in piano scores and who put them there. Did Beethoven ever put fingering notations in his scores? Mozart? Bach? Gershwin?


Really good points, Glen.

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Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Stafftab for Mirrored 4ths?
No way I'm going near Chromatic Fantasy again! The guy did 49!!! Whole takes of the piece, just with the harpsichord... wich I have to say is one of my least enjoyed instruments... I mean... 49 takes on a 12 minute piece... that's enough to last me a lifetime.... although I really like the fugue... not so much the fantasy or the recitation... anyway I'll leave that one for my next life ;)


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