It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:43 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic Bookmark and Share  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Seeking Independence (arghh..) 
Author Message
Site Donor
Site Donor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:49 am
Posts: 1344
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
Seems I should put my 2 cts here since you are mentioning my activity at Stickcamp (what a blast it was, eh?) ;)

I took part in numerous Stick seminars for 15 years, and each stick master I met came with some strong ideas I'm still working on. But first of all, I don't consider I'm independent with both hands : usually, I'm simply playing a motor (and some variations of it) with the left hand and can improvise some lead lines on the right hand. So, I'm really faking but I'm ok with that :D

From Greg Howard, I took his idea to tap the rhythm with my left foot (I was taping with the right one before) and after a while, I think I really became better at playing in rhythm. It took a bit or time though because I used to use my right foot really all the time. GH is also a strong advocate of always moving your hands and your body. It sounded a bit odd ar first, but it really made sense to me after a while. When I'm practicing a new idea, especially on the left hand, I tend to REALLY exaggerate the hand movements and I find it really helps to gain some fluidity even if, when I'm playing in front of an audience, I think I don't play so exaggeratedly.

When I'm trying to play a new idea, I try to decompose it in small chunks to really understand how the line is rhythmically constructed and I try to find the most logical and natural fingering. I remember Jim Lampi was teaching that idea from a seminar. The lost important thing to consider is not the notes played, but the rhythmic value of those notes. Sometimes, I like adding some ghost notes to improve the groove of a bassline, and moreover I think it's sometimes easier to play this bassline once you've figured out the fingerings, because it's like a steady flow of notes going.

Once you really think you're easy with a bassline, I then try to play a single note on the right hand, then quarter notes on and off the beat, then eight notes, then triplets, etc... It takes some time but after months or years of practice, I feel that this routine is easier and easier even if the bassline studied is more and more "complex". Obviously, when I don't achieve to play something at first (so...always), slowing down the tempo drastically helps A LOT :) (it took some years to understand this) :D

I'm experimenting at home the use of vocals while playing and it helps a lot too, as mentioned above. Playing with a drummer and not a metronome helps a lot as well. When I had the first rehearsal with my friend drummer, he heard I had some problems with rhythm, so he forced me to take some time just to play with him the very first beat of a very simple bass line, just to be locked with him. Because if you're not tied with the drummer and the rhythm on the first beat, you can't be on the rest of the measure. Quite obvious ;)

So here's my two cents on how I'm studying this instrument at home, but please remember to take those tips with a grain of salt, because I'm very far from those guys here who are really mastering the Stick so beautifully (Greg and Jim at first, but I should mention Ron Baggerman, Guillermo, Youenn and Olivier Chabasse as well) ;)

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ghostlike_ether


Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:52 pm
Profile My Photo Gallery
Elite Contributor
Elite Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 3196
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
Anything is possible. This instrument is amazing... You can do it, Bruce!

_________________
Grand Stick #6667
Railboard #6564
https://soundcloud.com/Jayesskerr Muh Soundcloud spot...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNmj2xi91qQWLymozzMudA My Youtube


Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:19 pm
Profile
Site Donor
Site Donor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:17 am
Posts: 942
Location: Portugal
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
Hey Captain, not much more I can say except: the more focused I am on something else related to the music, the easier it will be for the hands and the music itself. The brain works faster if I allow the subconscious mind to do all the heavy math ;) Easy way to achieve this is pay attention to one other specific instrument (like the drums) or, if you're flying solo, pay attention to stuff like reverb or the delay.
That always makes me relax, learn faster, perform live with less mistakes.
On the other hand I never really understood all this hand independence thing... to me both hands are just doing whatever they have to do for me to hear the one music I'm imagining in my head... granted, sometimes, apparently, they do different things, but they are never alone: they work towards a common goal...
Anyway, hard work, million times repeated, will make it happen.


Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk

_________________
Rodrigo Serrao

https://www.facebook.com/rodrig0serrao
http://www.rodrigoserrao.com


Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:02 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:28 am
Posts: 764
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
Can I just say how this demonstrates how great this Forum & the STICK community can be. Fantastic to take on all the comments, advice & insights or philosophies , even from the instruments very inventor, I appreciate them all. It all goes into the melting pot of practice and ultimate individual expression of music.
Like Steve says..I gotta go practice .

Big Thanks . :D

_________________
http://www.cloudburstz.com

www.facebook.com/brucejacques.stick

10 String Standard -Shedua wood #290
Dark Bamboo ALTO - # 6068
Gorgeous Maple Grand With PASV 4 & MIDI
www.youtube.com/mrpiratebruce


Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:44 pm
Profile My Photo Gallery
Artisan Contributor
Artisan Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:08 pm
Posts: 656
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
I guess it is not an original idea-but for me the A-ah moment was when I learned a song and just played the bass part over and over-just the basic chords.
When I felt it was automatically done , I started playing the melody part-giving just about 10% of my brain to the bass side.
Well when both hands are quite knows what to do independently, I can manipulate the bass part a bit to make it more interesting.

_________________
#2001, 10 strings Shedua, standard tuning
Stickup, Fretrails
Manufactured 2002


Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:41 pm
Profile
Master Contributor
Master Contributor

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: Jersey
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
My biggest breakthru (not that i'm anywhere where i'm competent) was Greg Howard's "keeping time with the LEFT FOOT". Aside from playing with energy (movement). (Emmett and Greg). But that left foot thingy (I have to consciously switch from right foot time keeping) was/is BIG. For ME. Lots of great stuff in this post from everyone. Aside from that, I come from bass, think as a bassist, that brought me to the Stick because i want to play killer bass lines and be a rhythm guitar player to accompany my bass playing. (I always thought I could play rhythm better that most guitarists I played with. (Most want to play their great solos...not thinking how important it is to lock-in and compliment the groove). I want that CREATIVE GROOVE in my bass playing. A "motor" with a "belt-drive" not gear-drive". A little slippin' and slidin' ideosnycratic quirky. Having said that, I also DO want to solo right hand like Jimi Hendrix and Frank Zappa. SOOO, what I'm saying is I want to play WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT WITH WHATEVER HAND WHENEVER WITH BOTH HANDS ON EITHER OR BOTH SIDES OF THE STICK.I guess that means back to practice...Thank you everyone for putting up with my indulgence on this post and for all support on everything Stick! (it IS the coolest instrument in the WORLD)

_________________
Peace, Marty
"The present day composer refuses to die" -Edgard Varese


Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:02 am
Profile
Elite Contributor
Elite Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 3196
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
AnDroiD wrote:
My biggest breakthru (not that i'm anywhere where i'm competent) was Greg Howard's "keeping time with the LEFT FOOT". Aside from playing with energy (movement). (Emmett and Greg). But that left foot thingy (I have to consciously switch from right foot time keeping) was/is BIG. For ME. Lots of great stuff in this post from everyone. Aside from that, I come from bass, think as a bassist, that brought me to the Stick because i want to play killer bass lines and be a rhythm guitar player to accompany my bass playing. (I always thought I could play rhythm better that most guitarists I played with. (Most want to play their great solos...not thinking how important it is to lock-in and compliment the groove). I want that CREATIVE GROOVE in my bass playing. A "motor" with a "belt-drive" not gear-drive". A little slippin' and slidin' ideosnycratic quirky. Having said that, I also DO want to solo right hand like Jimi Hendrix and Frank Zappa. SOOO, what I'm saying is I want to play WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT WITH WHATEVER HAND WHENEVER WITH BOTH HANDS ON EITHER OR BOTH SIDES OF THE STICK.I guess that means back to practice...Thank you everyone for putting up with my indulgence on this post and for all support on everything Stick! (it IS the coolest instrument in the WORLD)


Damned if I don't completely agree with this post 110% ... :D

_________________
Grand Stick #6667
Railboard #6564
https://soundcloud.com/Jayesskerr Muh Soundcloud spot...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNmj2xi91qQWLymozzMudA My Youtube


Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:16 am
Profile
Online
Stick Enterprises, Inc.
Stick Enterprises, Inc.

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:30 pm
Posts: 831
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
This is obviously a subject I love to explore.

Rodrigo says: "On the other hand I never really understood all this hand independence thing... to me both hands are just doing whatever they have to do for me to hear the one music I'm imagining in my head... granted, sometimes, apparently, they do different things, but they are never alone: they work towards a common goal."

He's on to something. We really need to transcend this contradiction (hands working as one versus divided hands). What can The Stick do that no other instrument does? You could ask the same question about a trumpet or any musical instrument. But why even play Stick if another instrument or a bass and guitar or piano duo can do it better (with more creative freedom)?

There's a satisfaction about this "free hands" method on an orchestra of strings. What does it boil down to? Varied for each individual? Yes, but how about a common motivation at a deeper level? You get to structure your music while you're playing it, whether it be a song arrangement or pure improvisation. You get to pin the melody down with meaningful bass and chordal patterns, rhythms, progressions, inversions and voicings. You can leave spaces and the rhythm goes on in your body, or abstracted motionless to your head.

Well, all keys and frets do this, so what's new? The Stick offers the complete score, with bass string drive and finger expression in the melody. So do you want to be a one-man-band? Well, isn't that what a soloist does? Multi-string and multi key instruments do this very well but a bass player can add a lot to the overall sound and performance. Why not just let them do it?

The Stick is capable of more (minimum means / maximum results). You can get back to the simple presentation of the complete song. It comes from one person, one mind (or faculties of that mind). You have total stylistic control and can "turn on a dime" like the tightest duo or trio of musicians.

LH with chords punctuating the bass lines and passing tones. RH with chords and double note intervals emphasizing the melody. Then there's those spaces where the rhythm carries on.


Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:09 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 6290
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
BSharp wrote:
This is obviously a subject I love to explore.

Rodrigo says: "On the other hand I never really understood all this hand independence thing... to me both hands are just doing whatever they have to do for me to hear the one music I'm imagining in my head... granted, sometimes, apparently, they do different things, but they are never alone: they work towards a common goal."


Much of the time, yes, there is a common goal. But there are those times, when, for example the left hand is holding down the bass line, and the right hand is playing a solo. Two distinct jobs in the band setting.

If we train ourselves to have more independence in the hands, both of these jobs will be done better, and with more creativity, because there will be less "forced interaction" between the hands.

To me, Stick paying means that you are always somewhere on a continuum between your maximum capabilities concerning independence and interdependence.

...........interdependence <-----> independence............

The more skilled you are at separating the hands the greater the dynamic range of the continuum, and the more extreme the two end-points become. The greater you have, the more you can do, and the easier it is to earn new music and to improvise...

interdependence <-------------------------> independence

This is why I think independence exercises are a good thing to practice.

_________________
Happy tapping, greg
please don't PM me, If you want to get in touch use email stickist@aol.com

Stick Lessons by Skype and Google Video Chat


Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:17 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Elite Contributor
Elite Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 3196
Post Re: Seeking Independence (arghh..)
greg wrote:
BSharp wrote:
This is obviously a subject I love to explore.

Rodrigo says: "On the other hand I never really understood all this hand independence thing... to me both hands are just doing whatever they have to do for me to hear the one music I'm imagining in my head... granted, sometimes, apparently, they do different things, but they are never alone: they work towards a common goal."


Much of the time, yes, there is a common goal. But there are those times, when, for example the left hand is holding down the bass line, and the right hand is playing a solo. Two distinct jobs in the band setting.

If we train ourselves to have more independence in the hands, both of these jobs will be done better, and with more creativity, because there will be less "forced interaction" between the hands.

To me, Stick paying means that you are always somewhere on a continuum between your maximum capabilities concerning independence and interdependence.

...........interdependence <-----> independence............

The more skilled you are at separating the hands the greater the dynamic range of the continuum, and the more extreme the two end-points become. The greater you have, the more you can do, and the easier it is to earn new music and to improvise...

interdependence <-------------------------> independence

This is why I think independence exercises are a good thing to practice.


I love this statement. Resonates with me big time! Well said, Greg.

I know it's Bruce's thread, but thanks guys for posting your comments, even the one about growing two heads lol

Happy Easter!

_________________
Grand Stick #6667
Railboard #6564
https://soundcloud.com/Jayesskerr Muh Soundcloud spot...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNmj2xi91qQWLymozzMudA My Youtube


Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:25 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Bookmark and Share  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BSharp and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

board3 Portal - based on phpBB3 Portal Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.
Heavily modified by Stickist.com. Stickist.com is an authorized Chapman Stick® site. The Chapman Stick® and NS/Stick™ and their marks are federally registered trademarks exclusively licensed to Stick Enterprises, Inc., and are used on Stickist.com and NSstickist.com with SEI's permission.
Click here for more information.