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Legato play in classical music
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greg
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm Posts: 7088 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Legato play in classical music
One of the things that's always bugged me about certain approaches to classical music in tapping is that it always sounds staccato.
If that's what the music calls for, that's great, but what's on the page is more than a collection of notes to be raced through.
My solution to this is to use much more hand movement in playing so that the notes can "fire" without gaps in between them, creating the kind of legato where one note ends just a split second before the other begins, and each has a clear attack.
Here's an example:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq7ElueRp6Y[/youtube]
The attack of the notes is clear, but not always staccato. Don't just play the notes. Play the music.
Bob provides a nice example of the contrast between legato and staccato in this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM2oFkQmyPk[/youtube]
My two cents.
_________________ Happy tapping, greg Schedule an online Stick lesson
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:32 am |
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paigan0
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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Re: Legato play in classical music
Greg, I've been working really hard on this very problem (for me): getting those notes to ring into each other in that nice legato fashion. On piano, I just push down on the sustaining/damper pedal! But that's a bit more than just legato playing, you can have chords ringing out for entire measures on a piano. With no open strings and frets, I can't quite get my mind around how you'd do the same thing on a Stick (yet).
I know Bob has taken his damper out all together to get that pedal-to-the-metal ringing on sound that's so easy to do on piano. But he's using essentially "open" strings tuned diatonically.
I've written 2 songs already that really need a pedal on the Stick to sound like they would if I was playing them on piano. I can also tap a note on a string--pedal down on my non-existent Stick pedal--and while it holds out, play notes on top (in my head anyway). Now I do that by just designating a finger to hold that fret down while everything else moves around it. It works and I'm getting better at it, but I have long seen how this would be totally different with a damper pedal of some sort on the Stick. I can get my hand around on the fret board, if notes would just keep going. I know effects pedals can "freeze" a note, but as a fellow piano player, you know what I mean.
Not a complaint or even a suggestion. It's not a piano! But, a damper that could be easily pulled in and out--I forget which Stickist had an old Stick that would do that because the damper was floating--would be a very cool thing. I'll probably make that happen someday, if I don't see a solution for it--other than learning to play legato, which I'm working on anyway. But a pedal adds a dimension and frees up a lot of fingers to do even more awesome things. But I don't think I have the physics right. Once your finger comes off the fret, the sound would stop, wouldn't it?
Thanks so much for the info on this! Both yours and Bob's playing were great examples of this.
My own 2 cents. Sorry for the wish for an instrument that does not yet exist.
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:30 am |
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kevin-c
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:57 pm Posts: 2220 Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Legato play in classical music
Yep. Staccato like playing is one of my many probs. Particularly when playing a descending note series......its tough.
I dont think Bob has taken out his damper......he's been playing with a capo on the bass side of late to allow ringing open notes...
cheers, kev
_________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/chiasson65
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:50 am |
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paigan0
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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Re: Legato play in classical music
Kev, capo, yes, but the dampener's got to be out to have the strings keep ringing on like that--capo won't do that that I'm aware (I'm a sucky guitar player, I admit). You can see it up close and clearly in the video--damper's gone on the horizontal Stick (which is something I'm doing now, rocking some horizontal action.) I could be wrong about it, though. Cheers, Kev/Greg! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va9kAyp5Snc[/youtube]
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:32 am |
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gpoorman
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:45 pm Posts: 1730 Location: Leelanau County, MI
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Re: Legato play in classical music
Bob took the damper out of the horizontal Stick and has been experimenting with custom tunings so that he can simply reach over and pluck the strings.
He also uses a capo on the bass side of his regular Stick and with the capo, any open notes he plays on the bass side will continue to ring until he plays another note on the same string.
_________________ Glenn http://www.121normal.com
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:42 am |
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paigan0
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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Re: Legato play in classical music
gpoorman wrote: Bob took the damper out of the horizontal Stick and has been experimenting with custom tunings so that he can simply reach over and pluck the strings.
He also uses a capo on the bass side of his regular Stick and with the capo, any open notes he plays on the bass side will continue to ring until he plays another note on the same string. AH, thanks, Glenn! Both, then. So the capo keeps the string pressed to the fret so that it keeps ringing on when you take your finger off that string. Makes perfect sense. Except, it seems to me thinking about it that the string will only ring from the capo point at the top once you take your finger off--not the place 4 frets down from the capo point where you fretted a note. So it only works with "open" strings. But still--that gets me a little further. Thanks, Glenn and Kevin!
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:00 am |
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greg
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm Posts: 7088 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Re: Legato play in classical music
kevin-c wrote: Yep. Staccato like playing is one of my many probs. Particularly when playing a descending note series......its tough.
I dont think Bob has taken out his damper......he's been playing with a capo on the bass side of late to allow ringing open notes...
cheers, kev Kev, If you are willing to use hand movement, it is super, super easy, because the movement of the hand releases the higher note on the string a split second before the lower one is articulated. You need to find a friend who will let you use their high-speed internet connection so we can have a lesson. I can show this to you in a very short period of time. Or if you have my DVD, check out the Melody Movement section. It's all there. Stop "typing", and start tapping!
_________________ Happy tapping, greg Schedule an online Stick lesson
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:12 am |
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gpoorman
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:45 pm Posts: 1730 Location: Leelanau County, MI
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Re: Legato play in classical music
paigan0 wrote: AH, thanks, Glenn! Both, then. So the capo keeps the string pressed to the fret so that it keeps ringing on when you take your finger off that string. Makes perfect sense. Except, it seems to me thinking about it that the string will only ring from the capo point at the top once you take your finger off. Yes that's correct. In the guitar world, open chords (chords made up of a combination of open strings and fretted notes) tend to sound a little sweeter, especially when you're playing on an acoustic guitar. The capo allows you to essentially move the nut and continue to play open chords regardless of the key you're in. It's an essential piece of gear for the solo guitarist. Classic example of nice open chords on a guitar with a capo way up high is the opening of the Beatles "Here Comes The Sun". No way you're playing that tune on a guitar without the capo.
_________________ Glenn http://www.121normal.com
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:12 pm |
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greg
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm Posts: 7088 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Re: Legato play in classical music
paigan0 wrote: Greg, I've been working really hard on this very problem (for me): getting those notes to ring into each other in that nice legato fashion. On piano, I just push down on the sustaining/damper pedal! But that's a bit more than just legato playing, you can have chords ringing out for entire measures on a piano. With no open strings and frets, I can't quite get my mind around how you'd do the same thing on a Stick (yet).
I know Bob has taken his damper out all together to get that pedal-to-the-metal ringing on sound that's so easy to do on piano. But he's using essentially "open" strings tuned diatonically.
I've written 2 songs already that really need a pedal on the Stick to sound like they would if I was playing them on piano. I can also tap a note on a string--pedal down on my non-existent Stick pedal--and while it holds out, play notes on top (in my head anyway). Now I do that by just designating a finger to hold that fret down while everything else moves around it. It works and I'm getting better at it, but I have long seen how this would be totally different with a damper pedal of some sort on the Stick. I can get my hand around on the fret board, if notes would just keep going. I know effects pedals can "freeze" a note, but as a fellow piano player, you know what I mean.
Not a complaint or even a suggestion. It's not a piano! But, a damper that could be easily pulled in and out--I forget which Stickist had an old Stick that would do that because the damper was floating--would be a very cool thing. I'll probably make that happen someday, if I don't see a solution for it--other than learning to play legato, which I'm working on anyway. But a pedal adds a dimension and frees up a lot of fingers to do even more awesome things. But I don't think I have the physics right. Once your finger comes off the fret, the sound would stop, wouldn't it?
Thanks so much for the info on this! Both yours and Bob's playing were great examples of this.
My own 2 cents. Sorry for the wish for an instrument that does not yet exist. Steve, There are ways to stay more "engaged" with the strings when playing, like leaving notes down as you tap others with the same hand. Sometimes its as simple (simple to say, anyway) as telling yourself to hold onto the notes longer. Since on the Stick you can stop a note dead relatively quickly compared to piano, which has more internal resonance, even when the damper is engaged. Recognized that a very short note on The Stick with some reverb after it can serve the same function sonically as a short note on the piano with the damper engaged, and a long note on The Stick with reverb added can do the same job sonically as a piano note with a sustain pedal. If you have a reverb processor that allow you to extend the time or depth with a pedal control, this is also an interest approach to emulating the sustain pedal. Recognize that high-frequency short attacks will be very "blurry" in this setting, so it's best not to have too much brightness in your sound, either on the Stick or in the reverb.
_________________ Happy tapping, greg Schedule an online Stick lesson
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:38 pm |
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paigan0
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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Re: Legato play in classical music
Greg, I think you're right on with that advice. A good reverb unit can take the place of a lot of what would be piano dampening on that instrument. Also, easy to say, hard to do, but just keep a finger down on the notes that need to sustain. greg wrote: If you have a reverb processor that allow you to extend the time or depth with a pedal control, this is also an interest approach to emulating the sustain pedal. Recognize that high-frequency short attacks will be very "blurry" in this setting, so it's best not to have too much brightness in your sound, either on the Stick or in the reverb. I think a good pedal to control the reverb amount would be nice to have. I want a wah-wah like rocker pedal anyway to control my effects--something new to me, since I've been using DAW-based effects instead of pedals. Lots to think about as I explore transitioning techniques from one instrument to another--the same effect can be done different ways, so an open mind is key. Excellent! Thanks so much for the advice! gpoorman wrote: In the guitar world, open chords (chords made up of a combination of open strings and fretted notes) tend to sound a little sweeter, especially when you're playing on an acoustic guitar. The capo allows you to essentially move the nut and continue to play open chords regardless of the key you're in. It's an essential piece of gear for the solo guitarist. Classic example of nice open chords on a guitar with a capo way up high is the opening of the Beatles "Here Comes The Sun". No way you're playing that tune on a guitar without the capo. Thanks, Glenn! Great explanation and example! Adds: I think I need to think a little more seriously about the Skymon Big Sky now....
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:55 pm |
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