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One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
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Jayesskerr
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am Posts: 4039
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One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
So I have been practicing a lot of stuff lately, and really made some headway. Notes on the neck are coming along nicely; ask me to find a note and I can find it pretty quickly on any string, and that's with no reference tricks. Lots of tunes, and I can improvise a bit. Most importantly, my learning curve has really improved. Learning a song takes a lot less time. Hard work, and there's more to do. I'm still digesting and sorting out the stuff I worked on last year, as I work on new stuff... Anyhow...
Last night, I decided it was time to get the left hand moving a bit more, and dove into playing a scale; playing a scale by itself is no real problem, but playing one scale while the other hand plays something else is a bit of a challenge. I have been focused predominantly on the melody side, but I thought I should increase my familiarity with the other side.
I started with a Pentatonic minor scale (min7 add11 arpeggio) and tried to play a one octave version of it in unison with both hands. It took the evening, but I got it. All 12 keys, in cycle of 4ths...
So yeah, the bass side. I noticed some things that I am sure everyone here has mastered, but not many folks talk about...
A one octave scale on the bass side can be played a few ways; 1) as a single string scale. 2) as a 4 note per string scale 3) as a 3 note per string scale. Try them out, and you will notice that a fair amount of position shifting is required. Which ever way you go about it, position shifting happens.
Now, if you want to get to a point of being able to play scalar motifs under chords, or scalar improv over scalar improv there are some things that MUST be in place. Well, for me anyways. You guys might all have this down, so pardon me if I think out loud... All just my opinions at the moment, subject to change, lol
Intervals. If you don't have those down you are dead in the water. Not just for scalar playing, but even just outlining a simple chord progression. I spent quite a bit of time playing chord progression root notes with only one finger. Time well spent actually... Basic chord progressions. If you don't have them down, you are screwed. 1645 1625 1345 1325 are the ones I really nailed, details to follow...
Position shifting. Being very comfortable with shifting, and playing the same note with a different finger so as to get you into a different position is a big deal. Leaps, traverses, etc. Anything that can distract is an issue, and needs to be addressed for smooth execution.
How can you possibly play a Mixob9b13 bass line, over a dom7b9 chord, and then solo appropriately over it all the while maintaining the "groove" if you can't even comfortably find and play basic intervals? The easy answer is that you won't. Ever. Those basic elements of music are critical. And for me, learning the movements getting to and from those elements has been really important.
For me, getting used to moving my hand while my other hand was moving was/has been very, very enlightening.
I mean, playing a simple scale with the LH, while playing the exact same scale with the RH in unison exposes a lot of issues. The RH can do a nice, scalar box in one position. Like guitar, the notes are right there... Easy to find and reach, not too much movement required. It's easy to be lazy. The Left hand, however... It's a different story. The 5ths tuning gives a range advantage, and that is really, really cool. But a scalar line of, R M2 M3 is a somewhat bigger stretch what with being closer to the nut and the larger fret spacing. Gotta move the hand. Then... If you want to get that P4. It's a shift. Whatever finger you use, you gotta move to get that note, and it is a challenge if you are not accustomed to that kind of shift. Position playing on guitar is for easy sightreading with minimal shifting for efficiency. Anyone who can read through Berklee Books 1-3 by William Leavitt will understand what I mean. Violin Is 5ths tuned, and graduated reading studies for Violin focus on the shifts and range extension as you improve. It is a critical element to that instrument, as is single string playing.
Take a look at Greg's 'Silent Night' bass line. Then take a look at Jolyon's videos. Brett Bottomley's walking bass video. Any of Steve Adelson's solo jazz stuff... Slow or fast, many fingers or few, beginner, novice or advanced; position shifting is a critical element to our instrument....
Position shifting. It's a big fucking deal. (now it's harmonic minor day...) Rotte N. Atteteud
_________________ GUITAR RULES https://www.facebook.com/scottsguitarstuffMy FB Page
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:42 am |
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paigan0
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Jayesskerr wrote: How can you possibly play a Mixob9b13 bass line, over a dom7b9 chord, and then solo appropriately over it all the while maintaining the "groove" if you can't even comfortably find and play basic intervals? Damn, Scott, the Theory Force is strong in you. Jayesskerr wrote: So yeah, the bass side. I noticed some things that I am sure everyone here has mastered, but not many folks talk about... I keep thinking I'm Bass God every time I discover something cool--I really need to take lessons and quit re-inventing wheels, or else get busy on REALLY doing my own thing, instead of just thinking I just invented stuff. I'm going to post a 150-day video tomorrow of me thinking I discovered two-handed pedal tones on the bass side. Be gentle! Jayesskerr wrote: Take a look at Greg's 'Silent Night' bass line. Then take a look at Jolyon's videos. Brett Bottomley's walking bass video. Any of Steve Adelson's solo jazz stuff... Slow or fast, many fingers or few, beginner, novice or advanced; position shifting is a critical element to our instrument....
Position shifting. It's a big fucking deal. You're correct and you've chosen some awesome examples. Those dudes have got it down! I admire your methodical skills at turning yourself into a musical Bat-Man! You WILL master this thing yet! I'm just happy with noodling so far--although my noodle power is formidable for a young Paduwon lacking your Force-ness. --Rocking it out a noodle at a time, Steve
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:32 pm |
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Jayesskerr
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am Posts: 4039
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Lol what I am trying to say is that because I have a left hand that can shred on a guitar it made me lazy. Like Greg has tried to state, it is about hand movement.
I was unable to see it before, but now that I treat this thing like one big crazy guitar, it makes sense.
Again, how the heck are you supposed to improvise freely over a Cmin7 F7 Bbmaj7 Ebmaj7 Amin7b5 D7 to Gmin-Gmin/maj7-Gmin7-Gmin6 If you can't even find the notes?
And then try to play a scalar motif (walking bassline with approach notes) that imply those changes? That means, that for each chord change you need a scalar motif memorized, 251 = Dorian Mixolydian Ionian ( unless of course you hate the sound of the natural 11 over the 1 chord in which case you will play Lydian over/ under that...) Etc etc... And what if you throw in a B7 instead of the F7...? oh fuck, now it's a tritone sub, which means Lydian Dominant... Better hope you have a motif for that, or... Be very comfortable with scale on scale action. It only makes sense.
All impossible without basics... And by basics, I mean the BASIC ability to move one's hand to a different position to get the required note... I'm getting there, one realization after the other.
I am back to Pentatonic minor, hammering it and making a lot of progress...
_________________ GUITAR RULES https://www.facebook.com/scottsguitarstuffMy FB Page
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:12 pm |
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paigan0
Multiple Donor
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:40 am Posts: 2884 Location: Detroit, MI
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Jayesskerr wrote: Again, how the heck are you supposed to improvise freely over a Cmin7 F7 Bbmaj7 Ebmaj7 Amin7b5 D7 to Gmin-Gmin/maj7-Gmin7-Gmin6 If you can't even find the notes? Okay, now you're talking my level. It's been over 20 years since music school and lately I just play with myself--pun intended. I could never keep all the modes straight. Cheers! "Hand movement" is the two-word key and mantra to Stick. It's what I do on piano, because I never learned to move my fingers in scales the "proper" way, but the chord patterns are the same if you move your claw-hand around fast enough. So I do and have much fun. But very little scales. We'll see how that translates to Stick.
_________________ Steve Sink, Laser Fractals Rosewood 10-string, #5989, M4s Sapphire Railboard, #6763, MR Wenge-on-Wenge NS/Stick, #170130, Bass 4ths http://soundcloud.com/stephen-sink-1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RDlN ... Ez0hN49_Qg
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:22 pm |
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Jayesskerr
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am Posts: 4039
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Well, I think that I just didn't understand what was required with 'hand movement' until I started digging into the bass side, really digging in. You know? Getting comfortable with literally just moving my hand around while playing something on the other hand has been tremendously helpful.
Mm mm the taste of crow... Lol whatever it takes, as long as I get to learn stuff.
_________________ GUITAR RULES https://www.facebook.com/scottsguitarstuffMy FB Page
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:01 pm |
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Jayesskerr
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am Posts: 4039
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzykq_Afugs[/youtube]
A video of the sort of thing I have been doing. Maybe it helps, maybe not. Far from perfect, and I have a looooong way to go. But this approach helped me out a lot
Greg, Steve your complimentary barf bags are in the mail! I hope it helps, guys.
_________________ GUITAR RULES https://www.facebook.com/scottsguitarstuffMy FB Page
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:53 pm |
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Brett Bottomley
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:01 am Posts: 1757 Location: North Haven, Connecticut USA
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Cool video I like it!!! Now play melodies, improvise!
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:14 pm |
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Jayesskerr
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am Posts: 4039
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Brett Bottomley wrote: Cool video I like it!!! Now play melodies, improvise! lol I do all the time, but they aren't ready yet for mass consumption. Soon, though!
_________________ GUITAR RULES https://www.facebook.com/scottsguitarstuffMy FB Page
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:21 pm |
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Brett Bottomley
Multiple Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:01 am Posts: 1757 Location: North Haven, Connecticut USA
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Ok I guessed that after I posted by reading your other thread. I think you are on the path!!! These type of exercises really pay dividends, great stuff
Brett
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:25 pm |
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Jayesskerr
Elite Contributor
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 9:43 am Posts: 4039
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Re: One small step, maybe a traverse, a leap...
Brett Bottomley wrote: Ok I guessed that after I posted by reading your other thread. I think you are on the path!!! These type of exercises really pay dividends, great stuff
Brett Yep, it's paying off. Your video really helped me confirm that I was on the right track, actually. A big "aha!!" moment there. Reserving that small mental space for 'other' things, keeping an 'awareness' whatever. You seem to shift, and move around with ease. Same as Greg, Steve, Emmett and Bob. It's disgusting, really how good you guys are...hahaha Anyways, here is an example of the Pentatonic stuff ( Classic Tuning) I am hammering out today. All 12 keys, and just getting warm and fuzzy with a lot of hand movement. Been doing it all day, and I'll be doing it tomorrow too... hahaha
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
_________________ GUITAR RULES https://www.facebook.com/scottsguitarstuffMy FB Page
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:24 pm |
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