Ah, thanks, Gene! I should have seen that. Anyway, again, good video demo of stacked meters.

Thanks guys, glad you're all digging it! I honestly wasn't sure how this one would go over.




Steve, like I said, I do love me some arbitrarily long titles! I have one song from my 2015 solo album that, until I had recorded it, I had called "Variations on a Theme over an Ostinato in 15/16 Time".

As for the technique, it actually has existed in music much longer than KC and Frip have been doing their thing. If anything, it should be called Glassing or Caging for Phillip Glass or John Cage.



John, interesting, I've always learned that these are called polyrhythms, as meter implied specifically time signatures and these are essentially small groups of different time signatures stacked atop one another as you said. Regardless of nomenclature, glad you're enjoying my stuff!



Cap'n, I find that a mix of 3 and 4 finger approaches has worked best for me. When I'm doing stuff that moves my hand around the neck a lot more, I'll tend to incorporate more slides and avoid using my pinky unless I really have to reach for something. When I do that, I do a lot more of the hand motion stuff that Greg has perfected. When my hand is more stable in one location, then I tend to open up and use all 4 fingers for my lines and such. Anyway, hijack away! I love a good conversation!

Right, same here. But I've used "polymeter" and "polyrhythm" to refer to the same idea, and "stack" as a different concept. I learned West Coast lingo, but I know some notation and terms are different on the East Coast. Then there's the rest of the world. Anyway, I'm recording some of these puzzlers now. Did some 7/8 over 15/16 the other day and I think some 7 over 9 and 11. I can't even count anymore, just trying to feel and play.

Looking forward to hearing the results! GEPH has a part of one song where Tyler is playing a 34 beat pattern as I play a 40 beat pattern and our drummer Josh plays a groove that simultaneously incorporates both.

HiJack, I mean Josh: That was a lesson within a song, ending with penache. Grace in the next office heard it and asked, "Was that KC?." Of course stacked meters existed before KC tho RF actually made it a commercial success in the early '80s (impossible you say?).

Hijacking again, I play 4-fingered melody but conceptually it's still 3 fingers. It ends up as fingers 1, 2 and 4 on most strings until I get to the pair of strings where the modal pattern ascends a whole step then a half step. There I twist my wrist a few degrees and use fingers 1, 2 and 3 (the strict 3-finger technique). Fingers 3 and 4 are thus conceptually the same finger to my sensations, never (hardly ever) to be used consecutively.

What a great thread chaps!

Its given me a lot to ponder upon, and sadly when I tried to play the licks, I found as always, so much practice to do!!

The History of Polymetrics is something I'd not ever thought about. So it's interesting to hear about the Glass and Cage connection. But I did check my score of Holst's Planets...and in Saturn, Polymetrics are all over it! So I suppose, as they say, there's nothing new in music!

Regarding ECs conceptual 3 finger system, I'm not there yet as I spent too many years just using a straight 3 finger system, and only adding the pinky occasionally, so the stretching out of those 3 fingers to cover more frets feels to me very natural and I can't quite get used to seeing fingers close together. But as I said bringing the pinky into a 4 note arpeggio helps with the ergonomics of the pattern when repeated.

Wow so much to learn!!

Cheers from Steve in the UK.

Hey Eric Clapton is essentially a 3 finger player. Got them long fingers tho.
Seriously the pinkie is really a mini index finger. It's located at the end of the hand and has a full length tendon system unlike the ring finger. When fully developed it gives you a reach from tip of the index to tip of the pinkie that you just can't compensate for with 3 fingers. I can reach unison notes on adjacent strings with those two fingers when I want to play an ostinato figure with the right hand like the second bridge in this tune:

They say that Bach tried literally everything that's been done in music history at one point in his life, so I'd bet he's tried phasing somewhere as well.

Nice playing Michael!

Bravo, Captain Mike! That was an expressive arrangement of an old romantic song. Could be applied to a hundred other such songs like "Autumn Leaves" that use that familiar network of modal chords.

The compression almost makes your Stick sound like a different instrument, but it works and the sound is inspiring in its own way.

And yes, I hear those unison notes on adjacent strings about 3/4 of the way thru, and I agree with your assessment about hand musculature. I also enjoyed the broad pallet of expressive techniques you put forward with confidence and verve - octave variations, chord substitutions, bass counterpoint, harmonics, and ending with some very tuneful string bending of a mid register bass string. (Some new cam gadget from an old steel player there?).

I wish. Thanx for the compliment by the way. I have way more ideas than smooth chops. Let's just say my reach often exceeds my grasp. But since you asked... As a guy who plays a 12 string pedal steel with 8 pedals and 9 knee levers to drastically alter the tuning in real time - most times mid-lick, I've often thought about adding at least 2 pitch changing mechanisms to alter the pitch of the 2 highest bass strings on my Grand. Ideally it would consist of two slender low lying aluminum levers, maybe embedded into the normal shape of the neck out of the way for normal playing but ever present that ran the length of the back of the neck, side by side that could be pressed by either thumb at any point on the neck, one at a time or both together with one thumb or both thumbs staggering the timing of the 2 changes with short but easy strokes - something like a clarinet or saxophone octave lever - but lowering the strings in question by 2 semi-tones. Upon release, the strings would return to original pitch perfectly in tune. You could even add a tunable half-stop with a tactile click when it reached a semi-tone and then be pushed on through to a whole tone. (I have 2 of those on my steel - one on a raise and one on a lower). The actual string pulling/lowering mechanism and fine tuning of the new note would reside in the bridge area. The technology to do that has existed for 30 years on pedal steel linkages, cams, roller bearings, and bellcranks so I know it well and I absolutely know it could be done. It's a question of routing and drilling into the back of a $2K+ ax.

Why you ask? To overcome the shortcomings of an all 5ths tuning in terms of bringing close harmonic top end chord tones within reach of one hand while still in proximity of the root bass tones - position-wise. Plus like a pedal steel, the motion of raising and lowering of strings while ringing could actually be worked into musical lines adding ease, articulation and speed to musical ideas otherwise quite ponderous - maybe impossible to execute. String breakage could be a minor issue with a 36" scale but with roller bearings and the right gauges...but I digress. Meanwhile I'll just bend a few notes, tune my 12th string down a whole step and leave it there so to enjoy the simple pleasures of playing a minor 13th chord with one hand.