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Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
https://stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7463		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alain [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Hello guys,

I'd like to read your opinions about what side of music you prefer the most...learning songs or learning to improvise.

Is it more important for you to learn songs? This way you have a path where you can learn more...or...your music is on the other side...you like to improvise and consider this like composing live. Mabye there is a third avenue...composition...you like to build a melody, chord progression, etc...

And why?
Author:  greg [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Kataway wrote:
Hello guys,

I'd like to read your opinions about what side of music you prefer the most...learning songs or learning to improvise.

Is it more important for you to learn songs? This way you have a path where you can learn more...or...your music is on the other side...you like to improvise and consider this like composing live. Mabye there is a third avenue...composition...you like to build a melody, chord progression, etc...

And why?
A great question!

Everybody's different, of course. I learned via all three pathways you mentioned:

-Adapting simple pop, jazz, and classical tunes,
-Exploring the instrument through improvisation,
-Composing, for band and solo scenarios

Most of us coming to The Stick we already have some experience on other instruments, so I suggest learning some songs you are familiar with first, as this doesn't require you to learn the tune and how to play it at the same time.

Make sure you have a good grasp (pun intended) of the left hand chord shapes, and a good understanding of where the notes are on the lowest three bass strings, from fret X to fret 9, since these are going to be the roots of those chords.

Learning how to play tunes is great because you can't rely on habits to do new things.

This is the first tune I wrote on The Stick, "Shapes", which is in The Stick Book if you want to learn it. It looks a lot more complicated on the page. Obvious 80s Crimson influences...

http://greghoward.bandcamp.com/track/shapes

Image
Author:  Brett Bottomley [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Great question. I think it's very important to learn tunes, as you learn to improvise. Real improv is speaking a learned vocabulary, you get new vocab when you learn melodies and transcribe.
Create your own vocab as well but there is o replacement for knowledge gained through songs and transcriptions

Brett
Author:  rclere [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Wow, Greg! I have never heard that tune! It is great!!!
Author:  greg [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
rclere wrote:
Wow, Greg! I have never heard that tune! It is great!!!

Thanks, Randy! As you can see, I got that whole repeated note thing out of the way early on ;)
Author:  earthgene [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Here is a technique I use, the foundation of which lies in the constructs of structured and unstructured practice.

STRUCTURED
Learning a song is a structured process in that the song is "hardcoded". The tempo, key and arrangement may slightly vary - but it is structured. Knowing the structure will give one confidence in anticipating changes and with time, allow the player to focus on the quality of the delivery. Knowing more songs give you a wider swath of experience to pull from (the living songbook that is Steve Adelson, enough said).

There are different levels of structured practice - learning a Bach Invention on the Stick is a good example of a high level of structure in that every note is written for each hand. Contrast this with learning Girl from Ipanema and you have a much lower level of structure in that chords can substituted, altered or otherwise left to the imagination of the Stickist, in so long as the melody is executed in conjunction with the chords and rhythm.

UNSTRUCTURED
The unstructured component of practice is equally as important. This is the part of the practice session where one explores and experiments with different patterns, polychords and possibilities.

It is important to allow time for this unstructured element as this will lead to a greater understanding of what happens in between the chords - something very relevant to being able to deliver a fluid melody over chords and ultimately improvising.

FORMAT
I tend to start my practice sessions with structure - giving myself a realistic short term goal (my most recent was to learn Wrecking ball after having seen David Tipton's version). When I was doing song of the week, it was a 80 / 20 split of structured and unstructured. Now a days it's a little more 60/40 as I have some creative bandwidth.

Once I achieve my goal, I use this as a springboard for unstructured practice, experimenting with inversions, layer extended chords in the right over the core chord elements in the left hand. I keep these in my back pocket to add color to the second verse of a song. For live sets played unaccompanied, it keeps me engaged and prevents me from falling into the habit of playing the same old songs the same old way. In a band situation, I will often amend parts in the right hand so I can have a smooth rhythmic delivery in the left.

Using this process, I can develop both elements based on what I like to play and how I like to play it.

The more I think about it, structured practice is like the main course and unstructured is like dessert.

"How can you have any pudding if you doun eat your mheat?"
Author:  h3dg3h0g [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
This is a great post, earthgene. Thank you!

I'm curious - do you do formal exercises as part of your structured practice? Running scales and other finger gymnastics?

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  earthgene [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Thanks mr. Hawg! So I don't generally use a finger-builder technique. That's not to say it couldn't work for some. I have been able to get good, measurable results from using the "song as exercise" principle. Each song has a hidden change, a tricky part or that darned bridge that will ultimately level up your understanding of how both hands come together to form the song.

The song is the lesson in terms of theory and technique. That works to quickly build repertoire from which unstructured techniques can evolve.

Cheers!
Author:  Alain [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Great answers from all of you...thank you.

On piano (some of you who touched this I'm sure) when you practice scales, there are different fingerings on each hand...how to switch your thumb for example, etc. So...another question...lol.

Did you try to do the same on the Stick...a major scale with both hands and not a reverse movement in the LH...no...normal "going up" scale? Up in the sense of a normal ascending scale. Because in the LH after the tonic you have to go 3 frets down (and another string...towards you let's say) to reach the 3rd...while in the RH you go 1 fret down and a string lower. And playing it together is a nice brain job...lol.
Author:  Gusset [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise?
Much appreciated, Gene.
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